Evan vs. sfer

[sthief09]

This is a hand that I witnessed between Evan and sfer that had me thoroughly confused. I don't remember the other players in the hand, but it doesn't really matter. I think there were 4 in preflop, then it was headsup after the flop. I'll just describe their actions.

Evan is in EP and I think sfer had the button.

UTG raises, Evan 3-bets, sfer cold-caps, Evan calls.

Flop: QJT two-tone

Evan bets, sfer raises, Evan 3-bets, sfer 4-bets, Evan calls.

Turn: Q

Evan checks, sfer bets, Evan raises, sfer calls

River: K

Evan checks, sfer bets... I won't say what Evan did


I was pretty sure what they had on the turn, but the river action confused me.

[MarkD]

Here's my deduction process street by street (I'm doing this because I think it might be fun). I'm assuming UTG is not a maniac here so that evan isn't 3-betting light.

Pre-flop: Evan's range of hands is much larger than Sfer's.
Sfer: AA, KK, AKs, QQ, AKo, JJ (I don't think this is very likely)
Evan: AA, KK, QQ, JJ, TT, 99 (less sure of this one), AKs, AKo, AQs, AQo (less sure of this one), AJs (less sure about this one)

Flop: We can rule out a lot of hands from the above list for evan but sfer's list is about the same.
Sfer: AA, KK, QQ, AKs, AKo, JJ (but I really don't think this is possible)
Evan: AA, KK, QQ, JJ, TT, AKs, AKo, AQs (same suit as the two suit on board but I think this hand is not likely due to how sthief wrote his post).

Turn: This really narrows their respective hands down.
Sfer: AA, KK, AK (I added this back in, it was an oversight to leave AK out)
Evan:AK, AKs, QQ, JJ, TT (but QQ is less likely now)

River:
Sfer: AA or KK or AK (I left this out, hence the edit. But I think this river bet is bad if he has AK so I still think Sfer has KK or possibly AA).
Evan: AK, QQ, JJ, TT - can't narrow this range really since he should check all of these hands based on the range of hands Sfer has at this point since Baye's Theorem shows that AA is twice as likely as KK.

If I'm supposed to put them on specific hands here then I put Sfer on KK and Evan on AK and Evan got outdrawn and corectly check/called. Or Evan has QQ and check raises.

[btspider]

It looks like sfer has AK when he calls the turn check-raise, but I don't think he should bet the river.

The only hand Evan can really fear is KK.. but since it was heads-up after the flop, that seems way too aggressive for KK on this board.. so he shouldn't fear it that much. He probably has AK as well and figures he's splitting at best when he checks the river. JJ/TT should have bet again since KK seems unlikely for sfer.

EDIT: I see MarkD is putting sfer on KK. I'm ruling this out since I think KK should have taken the free card on the turn. He is behind to every hand MarkD narrowed Evan to on the flop.

EDITEDIT: typed at the same time /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[MarkD]

[ QUOTE ]
KK seems unlikely for sfer.

[/ QUOTE ]

Explain this to me. I think KK is very likely for Sfer here based on how the hand played out - the only debate is the bet on the turn. It might be slightly too agressive with KK.

[sthief09]

two questions: why can't sfer have AK on the turn? because he didn't raise? that's exactly what I put him on after he went nuts on the flop and just called on the turn.

also, on the river, you say he could have AA. wouldn't that be a bad river bet? if you look at Evan's hands, at BEST, he's chopping. I'm not saying he can't have it, but do you agree that it's not a good river bet?

[sthief09]

I've played a lot of hours with sfer, and I'm pretty sure he'd bet the turn. he's very good at making thin bets. I'm not advocating betting (I'd probably check or actually just call down after Evan bets the flop), but I'm saying he definitely could have KK

[helpmeout]

I think they both have AK or Evan has QQ.

Evan checkraised the river, but i dont know why sfer would bet the river with AK he only beats AA.

I dont know I'm lost lol

[MarkD]

[ QUOTE ]
two questions: why can't sfer have AK on the turn? because he didn't raise? that's exactly what I put him on after he went nuts on the flop and just called on the turn.


[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, he could have AK. I edited my post to add that back in. In writing that post I got overzealous and "forgot" about AK for Sfer. It is a very reasonable hand and I quickly put it back into my hand range. I still put him on KK though.

[ QUOTE ]
also, on the river, you say he could have AA. wouldn't that be a bad river bet? if you look at Evan's hands, at BEST, he's chopping. I'm not saying he can't have it, but do you agree that it's not a good river bet?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, AA would be a bad bet on this river. I include it in Sfer's range of hands for the sake of completeness but I really put him on KK for exact that reason - betting the river with AA or AK after Evan checks is bad IMO.

[btspider]

more comments? results?

[Evan]

I called and cursed myself. I had JJ for the flopped set and turned boat, Dave had AK for the flopped broadway.

I suck out g00t but I value bet bad.

[sfer]

Evan was clearly unhappy about the river card.

[Evan]

What did you think I had?

[sfer]

[ QUOTE ]
What did you think I had?

[/ QUOTE ]

A boat. Then you checked the river. Why in the world did you check the river? Did you see how confused I was?

[bisonbison]

sfer, I keep meaning to ask you, what the hell does "sfer" mean? and is it "essfur" or "esseffer"?

[sfer]

[ QUOTE ]
also, on the river, you say he could have AA. wouldn't that be a bad river bet? if you look at Evan's hands, at BEST, he's chopping. I'm not saying he can't have it, but do you agree that it's not a good river bet?

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[sfer]

It's short for Wendell.

[bisonbison]

It's also "refs" backwards.

[Evan]

[ QUOTE ]
is it "essfur" or "esseffer"?

[/ QUOTE ]

Hooked on Phonics worked for Peter

[bisonbison]

I don't need any of your guff.

Also, can someone post pictures of the following east coasters so I know how to make better fun of the following:

evan
bdk3clash
sublime

[edtost]

evan is 5'2 and looks 12 years old, thats all you need to know to be stocked with insults for years.

[bisonbison]

I've also heard he's a large black man with mob ties. I don't trust any of you guys, so inquiring minds need to see an actual picture.

[Evan]

I only have one picture of myself on my computer and I was REALLY drunk at the time it was taken. Here (http://www.picturetrail.com/gallery/view?p=999&gid=5652288&uid=2763924) it is. It's the only picture there.

[sfer]

[ QUOTE ]
evan is 5'2 and looks 12 years old, thats all you need to know to be stocked with insults for years.

[/ QUOTE ]

Generous across two dimensions there. Evan would be tossed in several Scottish sports.

[sfer]

Brad looks just like his avatar. Pink, even.

[Evan]

I think you meant

[snagalpus voice]Pink, even[/snagalpus voice]

[sthief09]

he's from San Fransisco... is that a joke, Petey?

[bisonbison]

Sadly, no. Honest question, given that I've lived in the bay area over 80% of my life and never heard anyone refer to themselves or anyone else as an "sfer".

[Evan]

I'm getting a little impatiant Peter. I will expect a clever insult regarding my appearance by 10 pm eastern time.

[bisonbison]

Evan, let's just say that the cliche well runs dry when I'm confronted with a drunk poker-playing college guy with a Belushi poster on his wall.

You're a bottle of Zima and a date rape joke away from complete redundancy.

[Evan]

Well that was my friend's room (and therefore his Belushi poster too). The intoxication was entirely mine, however I do not have, and have not ever had, a bottle of Zima. And as for date rape, as I understand it that requires first getting a date.

[Gatts]

I don't know if you've ever heard this before, but you're my hero.

[sfer]

I grew up in New Jersey.

[sthief09]

regardless of my forgetfullness or stupidity, it explains where "sfer" comes from

by the way, I don't feel like PMing you, so a40ozs2frdm is my Empire name and f_theyanks is my eurobet name

[bisonbison]

see now you want to know too. Don't you, Josh? Don't you?

[sthief09]

what I really want to know is where bisonbison comes from... Evan wants to know where sthief09 comes from. I suspect the world may never know either. all I can say is that the 09 is Brendan Morrison, former Michigan hockey stud

[Evan]

[ QUOTE ]
what I really want to know is where bisonbison comes from

[/ QUOTE ]
I too would like to know.


[ QUOTE ]
Evan wants to know where sthief09 comes from

[/ QUOTE ]
I gave up on that quest after you said something to the effect of you intedended to take that answer to your grave. Of course if you'd like to tell me I'll be your bestest friend forever.

[bisonbison]

I've already explained where bisonbison comes from. I'm not explaining it again until sfer ponies up his reasons for "sfer".

[Evan]

its for San Francisco as I understand it (I'm pretty sure he told me this one night). He went to school at Berkley and lived there for a while after (I think) before he moved to NYC.

So what's the deal with bisonbison? you promised...

[bisonbison]

bisonbison is the linnean name for the american buffalo, an animal I am fond of. That's it. Not as lame as sthief09 or esseffur.

[Evan]

[ QUOTE ]
Not as lame as sthief09 or esseffur.


[/ QUOTE ]

sthief is pretty lame, mainly because he refuses to tell anyone what it means. As far as Dave's name, I've always pronounced it essfur and I intend to continue to do so.

On a related note, I would have to say that my name is probably the lamest for obvious reasons.

[sfer]

Brad gets the capitalization proper when he puts me in a hand. It's obvious in his posts. And it sounds better than former Pacific Heights-er.

[Evan]

dude, your name has no capitalization

[sfer]

Really?

[Evan]

not sure if that's sarcasm. but nope, no capitals.

[sfer]

Really?

[sthief09]

[ QUOTE ]
not sure if that's sarcasm. but nope, no capitals.

[/ QUOTE ]


you're pretty dumb for a smart kid

[Evan]

yup (and i know there's no sarcasm there)

[daveymck]

I always find it amazing when you see people post their photos that they look nowhere near what you expect them to look like. I thought the same when I saaw Fossilman for the first time he looks nothing,ike the way he writes.

I expected you to be older from the tone of posting, the guy who said you looked 12 was being overkind my 12 year old stepson looks years older than that, I would suggest 8 at most.

[Evan]

haha. well in my defense that picture is probably a little over a year old, so maybe i look 9 now. i'm also usually not completely drunk.

EDIT: I just figured out how to do this....here's the picture so you don't have to go to antoher site and more people can make fun of me.
http://pic14.picturetrail.com/VOL531/2763924/5652288/72470495.jpg

[RustedCorpse]

Evan dude, if that's the last time in my life I ever see your tongue I'll die happy.

sidenote:Barry says if you want to play at his club they'll let you in under 21.

[nothumb]

I sort of assume that anyone posting here is either

-A roundish white guy with nondescript clothing and perhaps an odd personal trait or accessory

--or--

-A 20-year-old, scrawny, sci-fi reading smartass playing cards in his dorm room while his roommate is out chasing the tang. (These people can also be Asian if need be.)

There have only been a few proven exceptions to this rule.

NT

[bisonbison]

-A roundish white guy with nondescript clothing and perhaps an odd personal trait or accessory

Hey, I'm thin and angularish.

[nothumb]

Like I said, there have been a few proven exceptions. But your face is still slightly round and chipmunkish, if we go by your avatar. You non-poem-writing bastard.

There are a few of us who are in the process of changing from Option #2 to Option #1, slowly but surely.

NT

[sfer]

[ QUOTE ]
Like I said, there have been a few proven exceptions. But your face is still slightly round and chipmunkish, if we go by your avatar. You non-poem-writing bastard.

[/ QUOTE ]

ahahahahahaha