why can't i mulittable?

[hhboy77]

over the last year, i've played a combination of 55's and 109's on partypoker and in 500 55's i had an roi of about 21% and in the first 220 109's an roi about 25%.

all of these were basically played one table at a time. however, i spent a two week period in the middle playing two 55's at a time and over that period my roi was something like 1%.

after returning to playing just one table at a time, i've taken another shot at 2-tabling and over the last week or so i've lost about 1000 dollars. i know these are short trials, but i just can't seem to understand why i cannot win even playing two tables at once.

does anyone have any general insight on what is going on for me?

[SpeakEasy]

I can rarely multi-table either. Your not alone. I like to focus on the action at one table, and I inevitably essentially ignore the other table. My results are MUCH better with one table. If that's how you play best, play one table and don't worry about it.

[jadowa]

I usually play 2 tables at once on $10-$20 tables on PP. What I do is stager-start the games. I start one game and then wait until level 3 to start the other game. I pay close attention to the game that in the later stages.

I actually play better this way than with one table at a time. It keeps me more disciplined in the hands that I will play in the early stages. Of course I don't have as good of a read on players in the later stages, but good players will change their style of play throughout a sng anyway.

[pshreck]

You can't multi table effectively until you've spent a ton of time learning the game, how the SNG works, how to handle key situations. Succesful multi-tablers have the ability to make key decisions based on their knowledge of poker and the 'average' opponent. If you are still relying a lot on reads, then stay away from multi tabling, until you don't need reads as much to make succesful plays.

[Chu]

I also have severe problems multi-tabling. I have a nice ~30% ROI at $33 over at party, but I have trouble handling two $6's at a time. Oddly enough, I discovered I can do the following easily:

1. Multi-tabling with different games. I can play a $11 7-card hi/lo $11 omaha and $33 nl hold'em at the same time without a problem.

2. Multi-tabling on different sites. I can play $33 over at Party and a $27 turbo over at PStars without any problem, with one or two other random tables at other sites.

I guess my problem has something to do with partationing, i.e. the information you take up subconsciously can't be partationed very well when the tables you are multing are identical. I have no real proof of this theory, but it would be something interesting to investigate.

[bmedwar]

[ QUOTE ]
1. Multi-tabling with different games. I can play a $11 7-card hi/lo $11 omaha and $33 nl hold'em at the same time without a problem.


[/ QUOTE ]

That's funny. I seem to do better when I play 2 tables if one is a $55 buyin and the other is a $25. I agree it helps me quickly identify them. I especially hate it when I play two tables, same game, same limits, and some of the players are the same.

[AJD51]

I'm with you brother. I have a very nice 42% ROI at $30+3 SNGs on Party playing one table at a time (~120 games). I've recently tried 2 tables without very little success. Listening to all the 6-8 tablers makes me feel a little inadequate but I finally realized that it is better to make money slowly than lose it quickly! Seems kinda obvious, doesn't it?

One at a time for me.

[Irieguy]

My opinion is that you can't multitable well until you've played at least 5000 SNGs.

It's not just an intellectual game, it's also a motor skill.

The smartest doctor in the world could read everything there is to know about performing surgery, and he or she will still suck at it compared to a moron who's done a thousand surgeries.

Irieguy

[ThorGoT]

Irieguy, I agree with what you say about surgeries (based on no personal knowledge, at all). But I don't see how that translates to multitabling. Move the mouse, click on the button. How is that hard?

[Irieguy]

Surgery is not hard either. It just takes a lot of practice.

With regard to SNGs, what happens with experience is that pattern recognition becomes a bigger part of your decision making. Figuring out how to play TPTK out of position takes some thought for a few thousand hands... but after a while you can do it automatically. When you multitable, you need to be able to correctly play hands after the flop without having to make a conscious decision. That's not possible unless you have played in similar situations before when you DID have to make a conscious decision, and now you know what to do without thinking about it.

It's like a video game. You have to concentrate at first, but once you've played a thousand times, you can play while you have a conversation or do something else... even if the video game requires decision making.

Irieguy

[Marcotte]

[ QUOTE ]
Figuring out how to play TPTK out of position takes some thought for a few thousand hands... but after a while you can do it automatically.

Irieguy

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not a good player, and I don't have a lot of experience, but something seems wrong about this. If you are playing hands subconciously, aren't you playing with a somewhat predictable pattern? Is the pattern too hard to predict that the average opponent (even at higher levels) can't exploit it to a degree to affect your EV? Or is there no pattern?

[Chief911]

I'd say a lot of the people who are having problems Multi-Tabling two SNG's, are playing too many hands. I'm rarely in a hand on both tables at the same time, giving me easily plenty of time to concentrate on one table when I do play a hand. Otherwise all you are doing is hitting the "fold" check box repetitively, and getting reads on the other people on your table. Many times I'll fold hands I might otherwise play (Marginal of course, not gonna lay down monsters) if I'm in a big hand on the other table.

Nick

[Irieguy]

No, with experience you learn to vary your play automatically too. But even if you didn't, it wouldn't matter. If you play these things correctly, there's nothing anybody can do about it... even if they recognize that you are playing correctly.

Irieguy

[AleoMagus]

I find there were two things that needed to click for me to make the transition to a succesful multi-tabler.

First, I learned to stop opening new tables. Open four (or two or whatever) and then let them all play down. In this way you will still get 4x as many SNGs in per hour, but as you are eliminated from some of them your workload will lighten as you head into the bubble/ITM/HU.

The other big thing is to stop panicking about speed and take each decision as it comes to you. I, for example play 4 at a time with tables that overlap and I used to really hurt my results by constantly fishing through these tables in order to anticipate what I was going to do, etc... Now, I just sit back and when I have an action to make, that table will automatically be brought forward. I do not make decisions until that happens (with the occasionally exception of auto-folding preflop)

You will find that you feel rushed when multi-tabling, but there really is no need. There is lots of time. Half of it is a trick the mind plays where you always think you are going too slow and make decisions faster than you normally would.

I think many 4 tablers and certainly 8-tablers would agree that 4 tables at once without starting new games is actually very easy once you get used to it.

Oh, one last thing... your ROI will go down when you multi-table. You have to be OK with this. I actually only get about 20% 4-tabling but that's great as far as I care. If I ever permanently make the jump to $55, even a 15% ROI this way is over $30/hr. These things need to be put in perspective.

Regards
Brad S

[AJD51]

Brad, excellent point, in fact the first one in this topic that makes sense to me. I completely agree that "feeling rushed" is what has given me problems. In fact, I find myself toggling back and forth between games trying to "see everything".Waiting for the action to be brought forward makes a lot of sense - so much in fact that I missed it completely.

Thanks.

[spentrent]

I'm happy playing TPTK predictably.