Do I Have To Call This River Bet?

[Unarmed]

No reads. The overbet could very easily be a monster, or any J, or a complete bluff.

$5 PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t20 (9 handed)

MP1 (t1440)
MP2 (t1580)
MP3 (t1460)
CO (t1550)
Button (t1470)
Hero (t1460)
BB (t1580)
UTG (t1500)
UTG+1 (t1460)

Preflop: Hero is SB with Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif, J/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls t20, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, CO calls t20, Button folds, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (t80) 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif, T/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(4 players)</font>
Hero checks, BB checks, UTG+1 checks, CO checks.

Turn: (t80) 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(4 players)</font>
Hero checks, BB checks, UTG+1 checks, CO checks.

River: (t80) J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(4 players)</font>
Hero checks, BB checks, <font color="CC3333">UTG+1 bets t100</font>, CO folds, Hero ???

[willperkins]

Since there is really no read, I would give him the benefit of the doubt and put him on AJ and let him have it.
He could be making a play at the pot, but since there is only t80 out there, I would wait until I had a better hand before I got involved.

[rjb03]

You should have bet yourself and make the decision easier if he raises.

[Unarmed]

Hmmmm, I know what you're saying but...
I have a hand that desperately wants a showdown on a 3 flush paired board and you'd bet TP crap kicker? I agree it would make my decision easier but I'd way rather just check and hope he does the same. Really, any bet by me in this case is only getting called (likely raised) by a better hand and is therefore a bluff. If he wants to bluff into this board then good for him, I'll call him down.

IF I CHECK:
And he has a monster, I check, he bets I call and lose
If he has sh*t and feels like bluffing, I check he bets I call and win
If he has sh*t and isn't feeling frisky, I check he checks I win

IF I BET:
If he has a monster, I bet, he raises, I fold
If he has sh*t I bet he folds.

Checking HAS to be the better move in this case as it gives him a chace to bluff. Betting is a poor move because it eliminates that possibility, and also because no hands that I already have beat will lay down to my bet.

Anyway, I called Villain's bet and was shown quad 7s. Lovely.

Perhaps I have this all wrong, but it seems like a pretty clear check call. Please correct me if I'm screwing this up though, happy to learn.

[Irieguy]

The compelling issue with this hand is the size of the pot. It's tiny, and the board is ugly. Clear fold in my opinion.

Irieguy

[Chief911]

Fold it down easily with this board.

That said, you make life a lot easier if you bet out here. There's a 50/50 chance he's bluffing here, but if you bet out 50, and he comes over the top, you can lay it down. And most of the time that bet will cause the same hesitation that you have here in calling it.

Nick

[rjb03]

The size of the pot is not really worth defending as the above member mentioned. I only suggested bet because you can't really expect a free showdown with 4 players in the pot with the flop and turn checked down. You can hope maybe the BB had a T with a low kicker and didn't want to invest in the flop for some reason and didn't want to bet the turn with a flush possibility. How many monsters are going to be slowplayed here with a flush draw on the flop? Checking is also a good option if you don't want the pot to grow.

[Unarmed]

Thanks Nick,

And really, I apologize, but I still don't see why I bet this.

[ QUOTE ]

And most of the time that bet will cause the same hesitation that you have here in calling it.


[/ QUOTE ]

Hesitation by what though? Any hand that I beat will call/raise that 50 without thinking. Especially at a $5 table where AJ is probably raising the sh*t out of me even on that board.

Now, if I'm betting to prevent Villain from bluffing, then I guess I can see doing that. Is that a typical play?

I never even thought of betting this. To me it was a clear check-fold/check-call decision.

EDIT: I actually forgot it was 4-handed, which makes me even less likely to bet as it increases the chance that some schmuck is slowplaying.

[rjb03]

Some people will call you with bad pocket pairs or even A high.

[Sidekick]

I'll chip in my opinion here as well.

With the way this hand played out I'd bet about half the pot on the River. If someone comes over the top I would fold to the raise.

The other option for me would be to check and then fold to any bet. I don't like the board, the pot is very small, there are 4 people in the pot and it is very early in the tournament with a very marginal hand.

In both of the scenarios that I would play I am willing to lay this hand down in a heartbeat. But to me a check/call is the worst way to play this. What do you do if you check it and someone bluffs by betting say 200+? A monster hand makes a pot sized bet, then you wind up calling for more than you invest with just the bet.

Don't make the assumption at this level that people will only call if they have your hand beat. I see people make calls (even call all-in bets) with absolutely nothing in the $5 tourneys. There are plenty of players at this level that will call your top pair with ANY piece of the board or even just ace high.

Hope this helps.

[paulish]

[ QUOTE ]

IF I CHECK:
And he has a monster, I check, he bets I call and lose
If he has sh*t and feels like bluffing, I check he bets I call and win
If he has sh*t and isn't feeling frisky, I check he checks I win

IF I BET:
If he has a monster, I bet, he raises, I fold
If he has sh*t I bet he folds.
Checking HAS to be the better move in this case as it gives him a chace to bluff.

[/ QUOTE ]

let me see if i got this right;
IF I CHECK
Hero checks vs monster, then Villian bets, Hero calls and loses <font color="blue">0-1</font>
Hero checks vs sheit, then Villian (either) checks, Hero wins <font color="blue">1-0</font>
Hero checks vs sheit, then Villian (or) bluffs, Hero calls and wins <font color="blue">1-0</font>

IF I BET
Hero bets vs. monster, then Villian raises and Hero folds <font color="blue">0-1</font>
Hero bets vs. sheit, then Villian folds, and Hero wins <font color="blue">1-0</font>

Checking is the choise, simply because it has more ways to win (when Villian bluffs)
How about
Hero bets vs. a better hand, which folds <font color="blue">1-0</font>
That is most likely not a likely outcome on this flop, but if the scenario was to occur, what do you do then?
<font color="blue">paulish</font>

[Unarmed]

Hey Paulish, I don't get your question. I don't think a better hand lays down to my bet here (others differ in their opinion)

Are you asking me what I would do if the board wasn't so scary?

Just generally I tend to value bet in almost all cases where it makes sense to vs the calling stations at $5.