Mirage 5-10 Stud: Js & Ts vs. Ks & ?

This is another confrontation with the Gentleman in Seat 2 (see previous two posts to understand who he is). However, this one is different. He's definitely got the goods this time.


The third street boards are:


(x,x) 3s

(Jc,Ts) Jd (ME!)

(x,x) 4c

(x,x) Th

(x,x) 9h

(x,x) Kc (Seat 2)

(x,x) Kh

(x,x) 6c


The low-card 3s brings it in for $1. I raise my split Jacks. With two Kings showing, I don't fear a pair of Kings nearly as much. The 4c folds. The Th calls which is a little disheartening since I don't want him to have a pair of Tens. The 9h folds. The Gentleman in Seat 2 3-bets with the Kc. I haven't seen him show this much strength without really having the cards to back it up. The Kh folds. The 6c folds. The low-card 3s folds. I call and the Th calls.


Three players see fourth street.


The fourth street boards are:


(Jc,Ts) Jd,Ts (ME!)

(x,x) Th,3h

(x,x) Kc,6d (Seat 2)


I've caught two-pair immediately despite a dead Ten. Seat 2 bets. I raise to play heads-up but it doesn't work. The Th calls two bets cold. Seat 2 3-bets me again. Well, now there can be no doubt that he's got at least a pair of Kings.


The fifth street boards are:


(Jc,Ts) Jd,Td,7h (ME!)

(x,x) Th,3h,6h

(x,x) Kc,6d,8s (Seat 2)


The third player in this hand has caught a third heart. I considered the possibility that he was on flush draw when he called 2 small bets on fourth street. I commit to finding out exactly what he has.


Seat 2 bets. When at first you don't succeed..... I raise it to $20 to find out exactly where I am. The Th calls $10 and then is told the bet is now $20. He decides to fold (Whew!) Seat 2 just calls which certainly tells me that he hasn't got two-pair beat yet. My tight table image is paying dividends again since he looks uncomfortable at having been raised on both fourth and fifth street by me.


Heads-up on sixth street.


The sixth street boards are:


(Jc,Ts) Jd,Td,7h,Js (ME!)

(x,x) Kc,6d,8s,4d (Seat 2)


Now there's nothing to worry about. I bet and Seat 2 mucks.


Good cards saved the day.


But was my play good as well?

IMHO you overplayed your hand a bit on fifth. At this point, you are probably committed to seeing the river. Your chances of improving are slim, while your opponent has only to catch a second pair to beat you (assuming he has the kings). He's got a dead king, but you've got at least one dead ten. If the other guy has a live four flush (or made flush), he won't fold. Likewise with 10s and another pair. The only thing he'll fold here is a pair of tens, which is pretty much no threat. If you don't put a raise in, you don't lose much value. You get one less bet from the kings but you may gain one from the weak hand with a 10.

I think you played it right. The only thing you can consider is just calling on fourth since it is notlikely that the raise will knock out the flushdraw, but a raise on fifth might. But basically i would have played it the same way. At higher than 5-10 I would almost always raise on fourth.


Pat

I think I'd wait until after fourth street to raise. That raise is more likely to knock the other guy out. That said, once he catches a third heart showing, I don't think I'd raise into him. If he's taking all that heat with a pair of Tens, God bless him, but I think it's likely that he's on a flush draw, and it may just have gotten there. Good job hitting your full house. I had a full house once; did I ever tell you about that? Overall, you played just fine.


BTW, when the other guy raised on third street, it wasn't a three-bet, just a raise. Your "raise" is actually a completion (unless this is different from $5/10 games I've played), and he makes it two bets. Just being pedantic. /images/smile.gif

That 3-betting statement is my Hold'em thinking accidentally slipping in. I realized afterwards it was only a 2-bet.


I'm very good at playing full-houses. /images/biggrin.gif

One last thing it is good to remember that with two kings as doorcards showing out there the chances are greater that you´re up against kings, rather than less...although you are les of a dog to the KK if it is there due to the semideadness of his holding... once you have the two pair I guess you´re about 60% to win the hand.... but that 40% costs a lot...

Hello, Dynasty!

NO! Your play on 3rd should have been a fold to the K's. You do not want to go heads-up against a larger pair --even if the big pair is "dead".

Your 2-Str. and t's were semi-dead. Hence,your mostly likely hand on the river would be to pair . Your opponent's most likely hand would be two BIGGER pair.

In muti-way action,you would have a call-but not heads-up!

You compounded your error on 4th--you had just enough to stay in.


Sitting Bull

Larry, I actually think the opposite of what you said is true. I'd rather play aggressively to knock out the third hand. As you say, two pair is your most likely final hand. The odds of one other player not improving are in your favor. When you've got two players who can improve, you're barely even money. You want multi-way action when you've got a draw that will beat strong hands if it gets there, not when you've got a weak hand that has relatively little chance to improve. Why let that third player hang in to backdoor his flush, make his gutter or catch an ace to make aces up?

I have to disagree with you on this one. You are less than a 2-1 dog even when the K's are live. There is a dead king. Plus there is the possibility that he does not have K's. Many players will raise here with hands other than K's, I know I would. You are giving up too much if you routinely fold here. Folding is a better play than calling, but raising is better still. Only against a tight player who would not raise without a pair of K's would I consider folding and even then it is close.

Hello,MRB,

I agree with you that most of the time you will probably loose more pots by letting a 3rd or 4th player tag along.

However,when you do connect with a winning hand like a full-house,you will make up (in the long run)for those losses plus more.


Sitting Bull

Larry, it's really interesting to hear your view. It is different than the "best strategy" of the more aggressive players who have moved up to $5-10 or higher. I think it's due in large part to the fact that you're mainly a $1-5 player, in part due to the large jump to the next limit in your area. Playing $1-3 and $1-5 myself, I think one reason that knock out raises are less good is that they simply don't work as well against many of the completely clueless players at these limits. These players may only play infrequently or are just flat bad players. Whatever, they are not winning players but when you have several at a table their propensity to make longshot calls can make you a dog to the field. In this situation, where you knockout raise only works against players with total garbage, you may be better to check and call until you make a hand. I think this is partly why so many say it's easier to win at mid-limits than at low limits -- having players who are a little more knowledgeable actually helps a strong player to adjust the size of the field and the pot odds through checking, betting and raising.