Did I screw up this 1-5 Stud hand?

1-5 Stud, Turning Stone Poker Room, Verona, NY


Table has been tight-passive.


I'm dealt [AK] K rainbow in 6th position. It's brought in for $1, two callers to me. I make it $3, it's folded to the cutoff who makes it $6 with

a J up. He's a new player to the table (this is his second hand), so I have no read on him. It's all folded to me. I just call.


We both catch blanks on 4th st, I check to him, he bets $5, I call.


I catch a blank on 5th st., He catches another J. I check, he bets $5, I fold.


I think my fold was right... how about my earlier play, though? Should I

have re-raised? I was afraid of betting into rolled-up Jacks, though.


He actually showed me his hand as he scooped the pot -- I'll post what he had below.

He actually showed me his hand as he scooped the pot.


His hole cards were Jack-blank. My reaction was thank god he got that Jack on 5th street, which I put him on Quads or Trips... but I was also surprised he was betting his jacks so heavily on 3rd and 4th streets into what I was representing as a pair of Kings.

1. Even at 1-5 the best play is to reraise on third street when the pot is raised by an upcard lower than your pair. Itis defintely a mistake if there are other players in the pot after you. Generally it is a mistake to not reraise here, although it is not automatic.


2. Why wouldnt you bet on fourth street? There is no reason to check here. This is not a situation where you can risk a free card, and it is very likely you have the best hand. If you are afraid of betting here because you may be against rolled up jacks then you really need to work on your game.


3. Whether to fold or not depends on the player. I have seen many raises on third street at lower limits with very little, and many players, myself included, often raise on a three flush. Against such a plyer you should not be folding. You should bet here also, and probably call all the way. What if he was raising two pair? A fold woudl be wrong. With a new player I would call.


4. What did you think of Turning Stone? I played there twice and thought the games were poor.


Pat


3.

Why shouldnt he bet on fourth? You did not reraise on third and then you checked into him. I would bet jacks here also, since your play makes it seem that he has the best hand. As it turns out it may not have been a good bet,but that is just being results oriented.


Pat

I guess I need to work on my game then... Having had no read on him, I figured him for Split jacks, or trip jacks.


I have only played 1-5 Stud at TS on three occasions, for a total of about 10 hours. I don't think a whole lot of the players there... a lot of calling stations, generally... but I've never really had a run of cards there to take advantage.


The biggest killer is the automatic $3 rake at $10. I played for three hours last weekend, with seven other players. Everyone bought in for about $100. As I was getting up (down $60 myself) I scanned the stacks and found one player with about $400 (mr. full house we called him -- seven in the time I was there), and the rest with just a few reds in front of them. The rake had taken about $300 of the $800-$1000 that started the table. Killer.

Hello,Doc,

He either had split J's with an "A" kicker or buried A's.


Your call was correct after he re-raised your "K".


Sitting Bull

Hello,Doc,

He thought you were representing split K's,but did not actually have them.


Sitting Bull

It's $3 -- always $3 as soon as pot hits $10. Of course, they don't call it a rake, they call it an "ante," and they push this little laminated sign with the pot to the winner, who gives back the sign and the $3 to the dealer.


Am I the only one who thinks that's strange? Why can't the dealer just rake the pot himself? To save white chips from filling up the collection bin?

Hello,Doc,

If the pot rarely is smaller than 40.00, then the rake of 3.00 is very reasonable.

In Louisiana, the rake is max of 4.00 once the pot is 40.00 or over.


Sitting Bull

Yes, if the pots were usually $40 or more, the $3 rake would be better... but truth is, the pots are usually in the $20-$30 range. There are rarely any 3rd Street raises, and when there are, everyone drops.


That can be good at times... if you want to steal the bring-ins, but with one caller and a $12 pot, which gets raked down to $9, then you tip the dealer... sometimes you wonder if you're better off losing the hand.

Without reading the results, I would re-raise on third street. I don't fear rolled-up Jacks. He could have them, but he's probably got a split pair, possibly with an Ace kicker. If he does have an Ace kicker, the fact that you have one makes it somewhat less likely that he will hit it. Also, the fact that you have an Ace in the hole makes it less likely that he has pocket Aces. If he re-raises again on third, I probably slow down, but I certainly don't fold. If I don't re-raise third, I definitely bet out on fourth. If raised, call. I think you have the fifth street sequence backwards. If he's made open Jacks, he should act first. At this point, I think you can safely fold, especially as the hand played out, that is, the pot isn't huge, and you're probably drawing very slim.

I don't think you need to tip the dealer when you steal the antes. I don't, at any rate, even if I steal the blinds at $15/30 hold'em.

Andy made a good, aggressive suggestion I feel more appropriate in higher level games.


I agree with Larry, the King/Kings were bet into and it was mucking time.


How to play "highest pairs" seems to change drastically as the level of the game goes north.


There is the "rule" that most have what they represent at the lower level and on the other hand, if I knew for sure someone would fold a high pair simply because I bet into him, I would have a key to the bank. So, like Uncle Roy says, it all boils down to 'knowledge of your opponent'.

If you don't know your opponent, error on the side of caution.


Good thread!


John

you need to get together with some of the others and try to have the rake graduated on up. to take 3 at 10 i dont think anyone could win at seven stud in such a small game. force them to change the rake or quit and you will end up with more money. they need to learn that all poker games need some regulars that win to start games. the tourists and losers dont start games and keep them going except when poker is new in an area.