JJ overpair

[thrillhouse7]

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with J/images/graemlins/spade.gif, J/images/graemlins/club.gif.
UTG calls, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="CC3333">MP2 3-bets</font>, MP3 calls, <font color="666666">4 folds</font>, UTG folds, Hero calls.

Flop: (11.50 SB) 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">MP2 raises</font>, MP3 folds, Hero calls.

Turn: (7.75 BB) T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="CC3333">MP2 bets</font>, Hero calls.

River: (9.75 BB) 5/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="CC3333">MP2 bets</font>, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 11.75 BB

[digdeep]

3-bet preflop. 3-bet the flop. Bet the turn, bet the river. You fear an overpair when you are capped preflop and capped on the flop.

[thrillhouse7]

you mean cap preflop?

[digdeep]

I beg your pardon. Yes. Cap preflop. If your opponent doesn't slow down with your 3-bet on the flop, then you have a good idea he has an overpair. You would be far more concerned if you had a read that he is tight, in which case you know pretty quickly that he is holding a big pocket pair.

[MikeyObviously]

In my experience, he has you beat. I'd bet 20 percent of my bankroll he had TT QQ KK OR AA

[private joker]

[ QUOTE ]
In my experience, he has you beat. I'd bet 20 percent of my bankroll he had TT QQ KK OR AA

[/ QUOTE ]

I dunno. I've seen people play AK of spades this way. Great hand preflop, great flop for it. When nothing comes on the river and they're heads up, they fire one more in hopes the opponent missed and will fold.

[Nick C]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
In my experience, he has you beat. I'd bet 20 percent of my bankroll he had TT QQ KK OR AA

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I dunno. I've seen people play AK of spades this way. Great hand preflop, great flop for it. When nothing comes on the river and they're heads up, they fire one more in hopes the opponent missed and will fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not even sure Villain needed a flush draw to go with his overcards to play this way. If he DID -- well, A /images/graemlins/spade.gif K /images/graemlins/spade.gif specifically isn't a likely enough holding, given the other possibilities Villain would presumably play the same way, for Hero to call the turn or river.

But I agree with private joker overall. I'm not folding.

The decision regarding whether or not to cap preflop is debatable, I think, and depends on the opponents to a large extent.

In any event, I don't think Hero made any big mistakes during this hand.

[pfkaok]

I might like to go for CR on flop here. If he 3bets then you can slow down much more safely than by him just raising your bet...don't know if this is best line, but I think thats how i'd play it.

BTW, when you log onto Party do you always say to yourself "All I've done is entered my name!!!"?
I used to name myself THRILLHO on almost every video game I played.

[Nick C]

[ QUOTE ]
I might like to go for CR on flop here. If he 3bets then you can slow down much more safely than by him just raising your bet...don't know if this is best line, but I think thats how i'd play it.

[/ QUOTE ]

One drawback to a flop checkraise, I think, is that it wouldn't put as much pressure on MP3 as betting and getting raised by MP2 does. If MP2 will only raise with a better hand, then this isn't much of a benefit. But I think MP2 will raise with a worse hand often enough to make betting out on the flop a good play.

Edit: Hmm. There could be a lot of overlap in the overcards MP2 and MP3 could hold that Hero would like to fold out, though.

[Bob T.]

Seems reasonable.

[pfkaok]

[ QUOTE ]
One drawback to a flop checkraise, I think, is that it wouldn't put as much pressure on MP3 as betting and getting raised by MP2 does.

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah, this is true... but the pot is pretty big here, so if the other guys got a flush draw he's calling 2 anways. If he's just got a gutshot or bottom pair though, then you'd like to have him fold for a raise, so I'm not really sure which factor is more important here.

[Nick C]

[ QUOTE ]
If he's just got a gutshot or bottom pair though, then you'd like to have him fold for a raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good point. I shouldn't have been concentrating exclusively on overcards. I sometimes overestimate the hands players will call three bets cold with preflop on Party.

[thrillhouse7]

pfkaok - my party name is different so i'm not thinking about it. But many times throughout the week simpsons lines pop into my head.

[chesspain]

[ QUOTE ]
...3-bet the flop. Bet the turn, bet the river. You fear an overpair when you are capped preflop and capped on the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Absent a read on the opponent, this is way too aggro. Indeed, what would be the point of betting out on the river? You wouldn't really be expecting opponent to have 99 or to call with AK there, would you?

[Bob T.]

Absent a read on the opponent, this is way too aggro.

I agree.

[pfkaok]

[ QUOTE ]
Quote:
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...3-bet the flop. Bet the turn, bet the river. You fear an overpair when you are capped preflop and capped on the flop.


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Absent a read on the opponent, this is way too aggro. Indeed, what would be the point of betting out on the river? You wouldn't really be expecting opponent to have 99 or to call with AK there, would you?

[/ QUOTE ]

Just wondering though, Chesspain... what do you think of the CR the flop line here. Would it serve at all to let you know where you are in the hand, or is it too likely that he just calls your CR with AA or KK, so that you bet on turn and he can raise???

[chesspain]

[ QUOTE ]
Just wondering though, Chesspain... what do you think of the CR the flop line here. Would it serve at all to let you know where you are in the hand, or is it too likely that he just calls your CR with AA or KK, so that you bet on turn and he can raise???

[/ QUOTE ]

Given that you want the third player out of this hand, I don't see the point of checkraising. Betting the flop allows the PF raiser to "conspire" with you to make this a HU contest. Once the third player is knocked out, Hero correctly reverts to the checkcalling plan which is actually advocated in that quaint, little potboiler called HEFAP. Indeed, S&amp;M describe a hand (albeit with QQ) where they recommend checkcalling down heads-up versus a preflop three-bettor, with the idea being that unless a A falls, Hero will win the most and lose the least when up against the typical range of PF three-betting hands.

[daveymck]

Some agressive players with three bet you even here with AK, someone did it to me last night.

Once its heads up with no read there is nothing wrong with being passive and check calling it down. My worry would be if he was looking to get a free card on the turn.