JJ at a tight table...

[Entity]

Villains are TAGs. This means they are good hand readers, and can be raising with a wide range of hands, but they aren't ignorant of position. This may be really routine -- I don't know. Let's play along.

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (10 handed)

Preflop: Hero is Button with J/images/graemlins/club.gif, J/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, <font color="CC3333">UTG+2 raises</font>, MP1 folds, <font color="CC3333">MP2 3-bets</font>, MP3 folds, CO folds, Hero...

[SCfuji]

cap the action.

[fairness]

caps

[RBurke]

Assuming your read is correct, I fold to the 3 bet. Raise from that early suggests AK,KK,or AA. The reraise from the MP2 suggests that he a) knows that UTG+2 has something like that, and b) has a hand that compares favorably. Which suggests to me that my JJs are beat by at least one if not both.

[btspider]

JJ hand - I have yet to reread. (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&amp;Number=1044055&amp;page=&amp;view=&amp;s b=5&amp;o=&amp;vc=1)

fold or cap here based on reads. save the cold-calling for when you have limpers. i forgot my lessons from that day. i should have known that from memory.

i would lean towards folding unless they are loose raisers.

[Piiop]

Fold.

[ QUOTE ]
Villains are TAGs. This means they are good hand readers, and can be raising with a wide range of hands, but they aren't ignorant of position.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't understand what you mean when you say they're TAGs but can also be raising with a wide range of hands. I would think you would be able put a TAG on a very narrow range of hands in this specific situation.

[Entity]

Sorry, Piiop. This is from the 2+2 tables, but people are playing well. That means there are occasions where people are raising JTs or 97s from UTG or UTG+1 in a blind stealing attempt, but they aren't the most common hands.

The raisers are cnfuzzd and GCGK04.

john's range of open-raising hands here are pretty big, I'd say. He's not playing LAG, but JQo or JTs wouldn't be completely unexpected, nor would hands like A9o. Blind steals are working pretty well from most positions right now.

As a result, the re-raiser will have hands like KQo+ (probably KQs+), 77+ (not sure if he goes down to 77, but I can see it as an isolation raise) to isolate the original raiser.

Maybe this expands the reads?

Rob

[Piiop]

Ok, 2+2 Table = WAAAAAAAaaayyyy different than normal table TAGs.

In that case, I'd cap.

[Entity]

[ QUOTE ]
Ok, 2+2 Table = WAAAAAAAaaayyyy different than normal table TAGs.

In that case, I'd cap.

[/ QUOTE ]
Hey Pioop,

Besides people overdefending and overstealing, how different is the play overall? It's definitely looser -- but since I've never played at true TAGfests, I don't know how much looser.

If the players are loose-passive (or tight-passive), I'm more likely to fold this than if they're aggressive, right?

All I really know about TAG play is gathered from watching games here and other players I respect. Is this just a matter of true TAG raising standards being quite high from EP and low from LP?

Rob

[cnfuzzd]

fold to the man with no pants....


peace

john nickle

[Entity]

Hmm. Well, on this hand, Hero called.

Here's my thinking:

If I cap, it does two things -- makes my hand a bit easier to read (not by a ton, but by a bit), and makes their hands a lot harder to read. If I call and john caps, it gives me a clearer idea of his hand ranges; he'll be a LAG with some hands, but he won't cap with them. He's aggressive but not insane. Of course, I don't have as much of a read on GCGK04, but I'm not getting a great read on him either way. I'll have to play this gingerly on the flop, but I'm getting around ~3.5:1 + implied odds on my call. If I flop a set and they have an overpair, I'm getting paid off pretty well here. If they have overcards, it won't be terribly tough for me to get away from this hand with an ugly (AKQ or AK7 or KQ7 etc.) flop. It's tougher with an ugly flop like 375,
but I think I can take a profitable line most of the time postflop here. Not sure though.

Capping is also a problem for the times when john has a LAG opening hand like A9o (and folds), GCGK04 has AKs, because it makes it harder for me to get paid off postflop.

I don't think folding wouldn't be terrible here, but I like calling, so I call.

Comments? What am I missing?

Also, in a "real" TAG game, how bad is calling here?

Rob

[cnfuzzd]

In a real TAG game, JJ is almost always an autofold to a raise and a reraise. And i almost never open raise with A9, dammit! /images/graemlins/grin.gif

peace

john nickle

[PokerIsLife]

I prefer folding in this situation as well. You have to give the first raiser some credit for raising in such an early position. But of course, if you're confident that you're able to play a solid postflop game, then I would cap and see how they react to the flop. It might even buy you a free pass to the turn.