AK in SB - checkraised on flop

[Fiddler]

Villain was around 40% VP$IP but I didn't have a large sample size on him.

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed)

Preflop: Hero is SB with A/images/graemlins/heart.gif, K/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
UTG folds, MP folds, CO calls, Button folds, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises</font>, BB calls, CO calls.

Flop: (6 SB) 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 8/images/graemlins/club.gif, 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">Hero bets</font>, BB calls, <font color="CC3333">CO raises</font>, Hero calls, BB folds.

The flop didn't look that scary to me, I figure I'm ahead here a good portion of the time right?

I got curious and decided to call it down... What should I do? 3-bet and see if he slows down or call and check-fold the turn?

Turn: (5.50 BB) 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="CC3333">CO bets</font>, Hero calls.

River: (7.50 BB) 2/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="CC3333">CO bets</font>, Hero calls.

Am I ever good here?

Final Pot: 9.50 BB

[Joe826]

Hands like these are tough for me, and I have feeling situations like this are where I lose alot of my chips, but I personally would take this line a good amount of the time. It's really play dependent. If I view my opponent as solid or predictable then I may just call the flop raise and fold on the turn. If my opponent has a tendency to bluff alot or seems eratic in general i'm inclined to call down here.

I really don't think raising does a whole lot of good here out of position. If you 3-bet, and it's capped then I think you can safely fold. But, alot of times this raise will be a medium PP or a 5 and you're not getting any of those to fold. They'll just call down and you'll feel like a bit of an idiot for betting their hand the whole way. Instead if I decide I want to see a showdown here i'll just call down. If they are bluffing, you don't want them to stop. Another thing to keep in mind is that the board is relatively draw-free (67 being the only real drawing hand possible). This means your opponent is either on a pure bluff, in which case you want to keep him bluffing, or he has a made hand, and you want to lose as little as possible.

A 3-bet might be more in order if the board is coordinated or if you had position (this way you could take a cheap shown down).

[Grisgra]

One thing I've found somewhat useful is a stop-n-go here. You might consider leading the turn -- if he raises you, it's *probably* safe to fold. If he calls, then I'd probably check/fold the river. (You're weird play will sometimes get the river checked through.)

What do the rest of you think?

[runa]

I like the SNG line. Its a litte more expensive than a 3 bet on the flop for the same info, but cheaper than calling down, catches your opponent off guard, and you regain the initiative in the hand.

[Joe826]

This seems like the worst possible situation for a SNG. Those are commonly used in situations where the board is draw heavy and you want to make sure it doesn't get check through when you have the best hand. Seriously though, what are you trying to accomplish here? You're going to make the player stop bluffing if he has nothing and there's no way you get a better hand to fold.

[runa]

It seems like it depends entirely on the player.

If its an overaggro tricky habitual bluffer then I'd say calling down is correct.

If its your typical non tricky loose/passive 1/2 party player then betting the turn reveals the nature of their hand earlier, and saves you a BB if they raise (presumably with 8x). Typical passive loose callers bet but won't usually raise the flop without something however, so snapping a bluff off here misses out on two BB, but may be unlikely in the first place.

If they call, then it gets more complicated as a 5 might check up on you, but it seems to at least narrow their likely hands down and check/calling or check/folding might be argued for inducing a bluff or representing a hand and praying for a fold.

[Joe826]

[ QUOTE ]
Typical passive loose callers bet but won't usually raise the flop without something however, so snapping a bluff off here misses out on two BB, but may be unlikely in the first place.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is exactly the reason you would call the flop raise and fold to a turn bet. Doing a SNG against a loose-passive player is completely pointless. The fact that they raised the flop means they have something. There is no draw on the board, so in essence you're just giving them another turn bet. I'm usually not so dogmatic about my ideas, but in this case I think a SNG is clearly wrong and makes little sense.

[runa]

I see your point, but I guess I have trouble defining an opponent's hand here. If you decide they are bluffing, then the call down is easy, but if you ascertain that the raise means either an 8, a 5 or a mid/low PP, perhaps even an OESD 67 there are several lines here. It would be correct to fold to the 8 on the flop as you are drawing dead, call the raise and see the turn if a 5 or PP, or either 3bet or bet the turn for an OESD. Folding seems weak, calling 1 bet and folding only slightly better, and 3 betting could get expensive if they indeed have an 8. I guess I'm not totally certain its as clear as you say.

[ALL1N]

I don't play the 1/2 game, but in general I don't see guys pulling moves on this flop.

If he had some sort of straight draw he's now ahead on the turn. Unless you _know_ he wouldn't raise the flop with the 8, I'd fold the turn.

[runa]

Ah good point, I stand corrected on that (I really need to keep an eye on the original post more carefully). My mistake, this makes calling the flop and folding the turn correct as overcard outs are more likely dead draws.

[Jeff W]

I would call and fold this unimproved on the turn. The 9 is not quite a blank. If he had 97/96/76 and was semi-bluffing the flop, he is now ahead of you. The pot is laying you poor odds against a passive opponent who shows strength. At mid-limits your calldown might be correct.

[Fiddler]

Imagine my surprise when he showed 6 /images/graemlins/spade.gif 3 /images/graemlins/spade.gif and MHIG. Got some not too pleased comments in the chat too.