The Results that should Matter

[ChristinaB]

http://img103.exs.cx/img103/897/image5.jpg

[jakethebake]

Congratulations! You've topped woolygimp for stupidest post ever! You really believe that the rest of the world should get to dictate who runs our country? If that were the case you'd be walking behind me with your face covered, or living near starvation like they are. If you want to live like they do, go live there. It's that simple. But don't try to prevent me from living in a free country instead of a socialist/collectivist state or worse dictatorship.

[W00lygimp]

NO my post is the stupidest?!

[ThaSaltCracka]

terrible post


I like how Alberta apparently supports Bush though.

[Koller]

[ QUOTE ]
But don't try to prevent me from living in a free country...

[/ QUOTE ]

Free country? LOL /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[dana33]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
But don't try to prevent me from living in a free country...

[/ QUOTE ]

Free country? LOL /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]
Being so close to Russia, have you gotten your impression of life in America from watching Soviet-era propaganda films by any chance?

[GWB]

[ QUOTE ]
http://img103.exs.cx/img103/897/image5.jpg

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't forget Uruguay. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Koller]

[ QUOTE ]
Being so close to Russia, have you gotten your impression of life in America from watching Soviet-era propaganda films by any chance?

[/ QUOTE ]

I hate communism more than anything else.

[Koller]

Finland, USA and Soviet Union

Tax-free gambling: Finland: yes, USA: no, Soviet Union: no

Death penalty: Finland no, USA: Yes, Soviet Union: Yes

Freedom to speach: Finland Yes, USA: 97% yes (-3% because of terrorist laws), Soviet Union: no

Conclusion: There is more freedom in Finland than in USA.

[AleoMagus]

I actually do not think this is a bad post at all and I'll try to discuss this a bit in a way that will not incite too much flaming.

Whether they like it or not, America needs to realize that they are the world's great superpower right now. Actually, I don't know why I put it that way, because I know that they like it and they like to think of themselves as world leaders.

And they are. When you enjoy the kinds of economic and military power that US does, you will be a world leader of sorts and your foreign policy decisions will affect the world in profound ways. Does that mean the world should start being able to vote for the US president. Well, obviously not, but the average american should start considering what the world wants from them just a little more.

As it currently stands, I think many Americans would vote for any candidate the rest of the world does NOT want. They do not want to de dictated to by anyone and really do not see the world as any kind of unified whole.

Bush kept telling people that the rest of the world would not follow a leader into war if he said it was the wrong war in the wrong place,wrong time, etc... Well, like it or not, and strange as it seems, this was how the world actually felt about the war in iraq. They would have followed a leader who said 'this was a mistake, but I now call on you to help me make the world a better place. I need help cleaning up this mess'.

But america doesn't need help, so why should they care anyways I guess? Well that's your perogative I suppose. Just as it was Saddam Hussein's peragative to do whatever he wanted with his own country. Do I think it was right do get rid of Saddam. Well, not as it was done exactly, but sure. Why do I think it is right? because if one were to put together a map like this one showing Saddam support, it would have been equally one sided. Like it or not our world has become global and the average citizen needs to consider that more when they go to the polls.

Now don't try to tell me that Saddam is different becasue he supported terrorists or some other thing. The US trained terrorists like Osama bin Laden to do exactly what they do well against the Soviet Union. You guys support terrorists too (even today) and I do not blame you. Does that mean the Soviets had a right to make a pre-emptive attack on the US or enforce crippling sanctions for a decade which resulted in a half a million civilian deaths?

I'm a Canadian who followed this election for the past months with an almost fanatical obsession. Unlike other Canadians I do not kid myself about how close our ties are with America. We provide you with far more than you realize, and you provide us with far more than we realize. It would be very hard to tell the average Canadian apart from the average American in a great many places. We have a history of friendship that has been tested a great deal over the past four years.

I for one wish that we would join the States. Now, before all the other Canadians out there go ballistic on me, allow me to explain. Three months ago I would not have wanted this at all. We have a better health care system and enjoy a standard of life that is very good. But a vast majority of Canadians would have voted Kerry. If Canada's registered voters had been able to vote in this past election, Kerry would have won the popular vote. And if you had given Canada it's proportionate electoral representative, Kerry would have won the electoral college.

Now I know, that is silly thinking. There is no need to tell me to get out of fantasyland. I know this will not be the case anytime soon and deep down I probably hate the idea.

I guess I just think that as long as americans are looking at the world as their own little backyard, they need to start accepting that their backyard will want some say in how they are managing things.

Regards
Brad S

[Wake up CALL]

[ QUOTE ]
I for one wish that we would join the States.

[/ QUOTE ]


[ QUOTE ]
But a vast majority of Canadians would have voted Kerry. If Canada's registered voters had been able to vote in this past election, Kerry would have won the popular vote. And if you had given Canada it's proportionate electoral representative, Kerry would have won the electoral college.


[/ QUOTE ]

If that isn't the best reason imaginable for never allowing Canada to become the 51st State I dare anyone to try and top it.

[AleoMagus]

[ QUOTE ]
If that isn't the best reason imaginable for never allowing Canada to become the 51st State I dare anyone to try and top it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Just doing my part for Canada

Regards
Brad S

[nef]

Please check this link because I am sure you have never read this:

THE CONSTITUTION (http://www.house.gov/Constitution/Constitution.html)

Please refer to this before spewing any more of your treasonous bile.

Thanks

[akaLogic]

[ QUOTE ]
Just as it was Saddam Hussein's peragative to do whatever he wanted with his own country.

[/ QUOTE ]

His country? LOL.

[AleoMagus]

[ QUOTE ]


Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Just as it was Saddam Hussein's peragative to do whatever he wanted with his own country.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



His country? LOL.




[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry. Why don't you tell me whose country it actually was... and then tell me what plans the US has regarding the human rights violations in the Sudan right now?

What did you guys do about Rwanda again?

Regards
Brad S

[Jedi Flopper]

Jeeze, we are wrong to free Iraq and wrong for NOT freeing Rwanda or the Sudan. Forgive us for existing.

[AleoMagus]

[ QUOTE ]
Jeeze, we are wrong to free Iraq and wrong for NOT freeing Rwanda or the Sudan. Forgive us for existing.

[/ QUOTE ]

Frankly, Yes.

More people died in two months time in Rwanda's genocide than in any two months of Hitler's massacre of the Jews in WWII. It was the worst genocide in human history in terms of volume of deaths in that period of time. By quite a bit.

The Sudan is currently in an escalating humanitarian crisis that will not be as bad as Rwanda (I hope) but still makes Saddam look like a great guy.

Is it a coincidence that Iraq has a huge oil reserve and neither Rwanda or the Sudan holds any economic interest for the US? No.

Saddam was a bad guy, but how many Americans even know what year the Rwanda genocide happened in or that it even happened. Do they know that 4 times as many people that died in the world trade center died every day in Rwanda for TWO MONTHS while the civilized world did nothing. Look it up.

Perhaps the American people should be willing to put 1/10th the forces they have in Iraq into the Sudan today to prevent the same thing again. If that is too much, how about a little more diplomatic pressure.

If you want to be the world's leader, be a world leader. It's your right to pick and choose the battles that benefit you the most economically, but how about just a little humanity so that we can actually look up to the world's great superpower.

Regards
Brad S

[KanigawaCards7]

Why would we want to help africans??They have aids and icky bugs.

[vulturesrow]

I am happy that my father's country (Uruguay) is a red state. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Abednego]

Now not so fast there partner ....... it depends ...... you just may want to walk behind her

[Gamblor]

Why don't you tell me whose country it actually was

It is part of my (and America's) values that the people should decide what a government's policy is, not a single dictator with no accountability to anyone.

It was not Saddam's country. It was the people of Iraq's country.

I believe that depending on the cost, it is worthwhile to promote the above value and those that don't hold that value are by definition evil people.

Even the ancient Jewish Kings were accountable to written law. That it was religious law is no matter, they were still required to obey it and were NOT above the law.

[tolbiny]

Then why did the US feel it had to right to go in and alter the Iraqi people's country?

[Jedi Flopper]

A state sanctioned assassination attempt against a former president. That is reason enough for me to remove the man who ordered the hit.

[wacki]

[ QUOTE ]
Then why did the US feel it had to right to go in and alter the Iraqi people's country?

[/ QUOTE ]

Please, before you post, think really really hard.

[Abednego]

[ QUOTE ]
but the average american should start considering what the world wants from them just a little more.


[/ QUOTE ]

Your post is a nice post and all but seriously ...... it really is the other way around ..... The U.S. has been thrust into the role of taking the lead on the war on terror.

It seems to me the rest of the world (as well as many in the U.S.) is afraid that fighting back against the spread of international islamafacist terror makes more terrorists. Well that may be so but that is the classic definition of cowardice.

Stipulating that to be true tell me which is worse: (1) Fewer terrorists but greater opportunity to achieve their ends or (2) More terrorists with less likleyhood of success? As an American give me number 2. Those bastards made a mistake on 9/11 and the U.S. (and we are by no means alone) will lead and win this war which I believe is WWIII.

So I think the rest of the world should start thinking about what the U.S. wants from them. And I feel confident that the rest of the world will come around eventually. It is just a matter of time. Because terror has been with us for at least 30+ years, and it isn't going to go away soon. The rest of the world will feel its sting more than the U.S. and when it gets tired of it the rest of the world will join with the U.S.

[Abednego]

[ QUOTE ]
Is it a coincidence that Iraq has a huge oil reserve and neither Rwanda or the Sudan holds any economic interest for the US? No.


[/ QUOTE ]

Actually the correct answer here is yes. Further there is nothing wrong with this either. Oil is the lubricrant of freedom. The free-flow of the worlds oil is vital to the whole world not just the U.S. Further .... the whole world is better of because America is strong.

I am curious though..... What has Canada done about the situation in Sudan?

[tolbiny]

anecdotal evidence in Iraq supports the idea that if Saddam were allowed to run for office he would be elected.
You don't know what the average Iraqi wants, I dont know what they want. They know what they want, and as certain as you are that they wanted saddam out of power i am as certain that if they were given the cureent situation as an option a great deal of them would have pick the former regime.

[Abednego]

I couldn't disagree with you more. But that's what make America different I suppose. "Give me liberty or give me death."

[AleoMagus]

[ QUOTE ]
Stipulating that to be true tell me which is worse: (1) Fewer terrorists but greater opportunity to achieve their ends or (2) More terrorists with less likleyhood of success? As an American give me number 2. Those bastards made a mistake on 9/11 and the U.S. (and we are by no means alone) will lead and win this war which I believe is WWIII.


[/ QUOTE ]

You are forgetting option number three. More terrorists who are more likely to succeed.

[ QUOTE ]
Your post is a nice post and all but seriously ......

[/ QUOTE ]

Yours too but seriously... what does Iraq have to do with the war on terror? Oh that's right, AQ has now gained a foothold where they didn't have one before. Good job taking such a positive lead.

Where do you plan to lead us next?

Regards
Brad S

[Abednego]

Better to fight them there with our professionals than here with non-professionals. Besides AQ was there before before 9/11.

[AleoMagus]

[ QUOTE ]
Actually the correct answer here is yes. Further there is nothing wrong with this either. Oil is the lubricrant of freedom. The free-flow of the worlds oil is vital to the whole world not just the U.S. Further .... the whole world is better of because America is strong.

I am curious though..... What has Canada done about the situation in Sudan?

[/ QUOTE ]

You actually believe this is a coincidence? I don't even know where to start in addressing that. Lets just assume it is a coincidence for sake of argument. Why isn't the US gov't going in guns blazing because of the atrocities and 'evil' lack of freedom in the Sudan?

As far as Canada. We aren't doing much either. We didn't do much in Rwanda either (though many Canadians really tried).

The real point is this:

Canada easily made the decision to not tag along with the US ground troops in Iraq and it has no plans to send peacekeepers now.

The same could not be said if you went into the Sudan tommorrow. I am confident Canada would commit a large peacekeeping contingent if the UN decided to put a military presence together to solve the problem. We invented peacekeeping

Regards
Brad S

[tolbiny]

No, what makes america different is that most american's have never actually been in a situation as bad as it is getting in Iraq.

Ohhh- and what about the patriot act? One Successfull act on US soil and suddenly legislation is passed that limit personal liberties.... hmmmmmm, where are you slogans now?

[Abednego]

What about the Patriot Act. What personal liberties do i not have now that I did before? Please elaborate.

[tolbiny]

At least color in the sates that went to Kerry blue.

[tolbiny]

ACLU (http://www.aclu.org/SafeandFree/SafeandFree.cfm?ID=12126&c=207)

Heres a link. In the first paragraph

without a warrant and without probable cause, the FBI now has the power to access your most private medical records, your library records, and your student records... and can prevent anyone from telling you it was done.

i personally like the right to privacy.

[Seether]

[ QUOTE ]
We invented peacekeeping


[/ QUOTE ]

And the US invented saving the world?

[Spladle Master]

Personally, I'm glad that Bush got re-elected. See, before the election, people who lived in other countries had to preface their anti-American tirades by clarifying that it was BUSH they hated, not necessarily all American citizens. Now that America has shown that it supports Abu Ghraib, Guantanamo and illegal wars, people can go ahead and just hate all Americans with a clear conscience.

Bush's presidency is merely symptomatic of what is wrong with the country. Everyone seems to have a We Are Good and They Are Bad mentality these days, and that wouldn't have changed even if Kerry had been elected.

[Abednego]

To be honest with you the religious liberties denied me due to ACLU actions concern me more than expanded FBI powers to combat terrorism.

[Trainwreck]

It's only FREE if you WEREN'T born here.

LOL!

>TW<

[tolbiny]

"To be honest with you the religious liberties denied me due to ACLU actions"

Which ones would those be?

"more than expanded FBI powers to combat terrorism."

Anyone who has read any history would quickly see that power is always abused. There are virtually no restrictions on the powers granted, and there is nvirtually no chance that they will not be abused. Once someone has the power to take away your rights without recourse, they are no longer rights.

[AleoMagus]

[ QUOTE ]
And the US invented saving the world?

[/ QUOTE ]

How exactly is the US saving the world right now?

The war on terror?

Regards
Brad S

[Neil Stevens]

This map would only prove that George Bush DOES have American interests at heart first, and John Kerry doesn't, and make it all the more important that he won on Tuesday.

[mmcd]

Yours too but seriously... what does Iraq have to do with the war on terror? Oh that's right, AQ has now gained a foothold where they didn't have one before. Good job taking such a positive lead.

Hmmmm. Drawing a lot of these a$$holes of the woodwork to fight with our MILITARY on THEIR OWN TURF in a DESERT tens of thousands of miles AWAY FROM AMERICA.

What a foolish idea.

[Edge34]

[ QUOTE ]
ACLU (http://www.aclu.org/SafeandFree/SafeandFree.cfm?ID=12126&c=207)

Heres a link. In the first paragraph

without a warrant and without probable cause, the FBI now has the power to access your most private medical records, your library records, and your student records... and can prevent anyone from telling you it was done.

i personally like the right to privacy.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hey tolbiny,

I'm actually curious as to just what vital information the FBI might find from finding out when my last checkup/surgery was, what my reading interests are, and what grade I got in Mass Comm 212 last semester...this doesn't really strike me as all that invasive...unless of course, my latest reading material was "How to Blow Up Your State's Capitol", I don't think I've got too much to hide, do you?

-Edge

[Abednego]

I agree edge ...... by the way ..... what did you get in Mass Comm 212 last semester?

[Edge34]

I got an A...best professor I've ever had too!

SEE FBI, I'VE GOT NOTHING TO HIDE!!!

/images/graemlins/cool.gif

[Nate Finch]

I love the way Bush is claiming America loves him, when he barely got the majority of the vote. Ooh.. 51% of people think you should be president. Well whooptee frickin' doo. That means 49% of people think you should not be president. Bush has no Mandate, he has no Election Currency to spend.... he's no better off than he was 4 years ago... half the people still think he shouldn't be president.

Yeah, that's the way almost every election is won these days, but I'm just annoyed that Bush is strutting around like he got 80% of the vote.

The problem with Bush is that he's not a great thinker. He goes with his gut and then never wavers. Some call that steadfast, I call it stubborn and short sighted. His foreign policy has managed to turn the entire world against us, where even our allies are taking steps to distance themselves from our actions. He has to learn that we are not alone on this planet, and that pissing off our neighbors is a bad idea.

-Nate

[Neil Stevens]

Oh, and don't forget that Howard in Australia just got re-elected, Koizumi in Japan is still doing fine in polls, Blair in the UK thinks he can win a snap election after the Iraqi elections.

That map should be redder than you let on.

[Abednego]

Well ..... there you again ...... We are not alone

[Edge34]

Er...I'm going to assmue this is more of a general response post than one in response to my last two...

George W. Bush won 51% of the NATIONAL popular vote, making him the first candidate to do so since his father, George H.W. Bush, won back in '88. Bubba didn't do it EITHER time he got elected. That's a pretty stunning victory, almost by 4 million votes.

And if it would make you feel any better, if just less than half the people think he shouldn't be President now...well, MORE than half didn't vote for him last time. Hell, he even technically LOST the popular vote in 2000, albeit much MUCH closer than this year's. I'd say that makes him MUCH better off, at least in terms of national support, than he was 4 years ago.

As far as foreign policy, I have a feeling you'll see moves to at least ATTEMPT to rebuild relationships in these next 4 years, but choosing short-term happy feelings toward us over making moves in the best interests of the nation, well, that'd be foolish.

That should clear things up a little bit, I hope.

[emonrad87]

[ QUOTE ]
I love the way Bush is claiming America loves him, when he barely got the majority of the vote. Ooh.. 51% of people think you should be president. Well whooptee frickin' doo. That means 49% of people think you should not be president. Bush has no Mandate, he has no Election Currency to spend.... he's no better off than he was 4 years ago... half the people still think he shouldn't be president.


[/ QUOTE ]


Are you serious??? For your information, President Bush just recieved a majority of the popular vote - which is waaayy more than can be said for your beloved Slick Willy. He also just won by a margin of over 3 million votes - a larger margin than any President, ever. How can you say he has no mandate? Did you think Clinton had a mandate to rule the country? He wasnt even wanted by half the country!

[Ed Miller]

Don't forget Uruguay.

LOL

http://images.urbandictionary.com/view/large/4570.jpg

[daveymck]

[ QUOTE ]
Oh, and don't forget that Howard in Australia just got re-elected, Koizumi in Japan is still doing fine in polls, Blair in the UK thinks he can win a snap election after the Iraqi elections.

That map should be redder than you let on.

[/ QUOTE ]

I assume she meant the population. Polls carried out here had Kerry well ahead. However the people who vote in these thingsare probably more inclined for change and we didnt really see all the issues or live in the US to see what the oridinary person life has been under Bush.

[luv_the_game]

Not that I don't think that the Patriot act can use some fine tuneing, but the government has always had the right to access your records for national security reasons. They just have to tell you that they can now. That's why we get those disclaimers at the doctor now.

Don't believe everything the ACLU and popular media tell you. If they really could demonstrate that it was unconstitutional they would filing tons of cases by now.

[ChristinaB]

http://letsriot.com/stuff/new_map.jpg

[jakethebake]

Kind of a small sample, but regardless are you saying the U.S. elections should be held in Finland?
/images/graemlins/grin.gif[ QUOTE ]
Finland, USA and Soviet Union

Tax-free gambling: Finland: yes, USA: no, Soviet Union: no

Death penalty: Finland no, USA: Yes, Soviet Union: Yes

Freedom to speach: Finland Yes, USA: 97% yes (-3% because of terrorist laws), Soviet Union: no

Conclusion: There is more freedom in Finland than in USA.

[/ QUOTE ]

[jakethebake]

Yours are some of my favorite poker posts, Aleo. But your an nincompoop. OF COURSE, we send armies to protect American interests! That's why we have them! We don't have armies to protect the world and we shouldn't pretend to. We sent troops to Iraq to protect American interests, NOT to free the Iraqis. And if one U.S. soldier died protecting anything other than American interests than it's a misuse of our troops.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Jeeze, we are wrong to free Iraq and wrong for NOT freeing Rwanda or the Sudan. Forgive us for existing.

[/ QUOTE ]

Frankly, Yes.

More people died in two months time in Rwanda's genocide than in any two months of Hitler's massacre of the Jews in WWII. It was the worst genocide in human history in terms of volume of deaths in that period of time. By quite a bit.

The Sudan is currently in an escalating humanitarian crisis that will not be as bad as Rwanda (I hope) but still makes Saddam look like a great guy.

Is it a coincidence that Iraq has a huge oil reserve and neither Rwanda or the Sudan holds any economic interest for the US? No.

Saddam was a bad guy, but how many Americans even know what year the Rwanda genocide happened in or that it even happened. Do they know that 4 times as many people that died in the world trade center died every day in Rwanda for TWO MONTHS while the civilized world did nothing. Look it up.

Perhaps the American people should be willing to put 1/10th the forces they have in Iraq into the Sudan today to prevent the same thing again. If that is too much, how about a little more diplomatic pressure.

If you want to be the world's leader, be a world leader. It's your right to pick and choose the battles that benefit you the most economically, but how about just a little humanity so that we can actually look up to the world's great superpower.

Regards
Brad S

[/ QUOTE ]

[ChristinaB]

http://www3.sympatico.ca/gsac/images/NewCanada.jpg

[West]

lol

[tolbiny]

This isn't a point about what you may or may not have to hide.
This is the issue-
Our country's laws are based upon a document called the US constitution. The constitution garuentees certain rights to all american citizens. These rights are subject to the interpretation of the Supreme court, and the supreme court has the mandate to follow which states that they shall allow no law to be passed that will breach a person's right. You still with me?
The supreme court has ruled in favor of personal privacy issues. The Patriot act violates several of those mandates. If you want to change the law in this way you first have to amend the constitution.
This isn't an issue about weather you care if your rights are violated, you don't get to make that decision for other people.
It's in the constitution, and there are reasons that it is in the constitution.

[tolbiny]

you do realize that there are reports of AQ's membership increasing since our invasion? We are fighting people who wouldn't ever have fought us.

[Jedi Flopper]

The right to privacy is not in the constitution. If the supreme court can give us a "right" they can also take it away which is what they are doing by their silence concerning the patriot act. The current court's decisions are no less binding than any past court.

Your constitutional arguments are invalid.

[ChristinaB]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v123/xgabex/GOAMERICA.jpg

[ChristinaB]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v95/aussie_bryce/HowDumb.jpg

[ChristinaB]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v61/ornisoris/BM890040.jpg

[texaspimp]

If only your map were true Christina!!!

Thank God Indiana is in the UST. BTW, have you ever been to Texas or met the people there???

Does it bother some of your fans and friends that Christ is a part of your name?

[tolbiny]

If the supreme court can give us a "right" they can also take it away which is what they are doing by their silence concerning the patriot act.

The supreme court cannot give us rights. They can only interpret the constitution. They can interpret both explicitly and implicitly from the constitution.

"The current court's decisions are no less binding than any past court"

This is true.

[mmcd]

You're wrong. Whenever and wherever we started to kill off
Al Qaeda'a membership, their recruitment would have risen because we'd be making martyrs out of them.

We not only have to eliminate Al Qaeda as it stands right now at this moment, we also have to, at the very least, put a serious dent in their power base (i.e. the islamic fundamentalists that have that sort of political slant).

The U.S. could certainly do without those people that would join up with Al Qaeda. Just as well they get pushed off the fence in the earlier stages of the conflict, so we know exactly who presents a threat to us.

[akaLogic]

[ QUOTE ]
Sorry. Why don't you tell me whose country it actually was

[/ QUOTE ]

This is actually a very interesting question, but I suspect the entire premise is wrong. Countries are not something like a plot of land that can be owned. The people of Iraq were not the personal slaves of Saddam Hussein, any more that GWB (or John Kerry, if he had won) would "own" the US.

A country is a poltical entity formed to PROTECT the rights of its citizens, not violate them. No dictator has the right to kill, rape, and ensalve his citizens.

[ QUOTE ]
and then tell me what plans the US has regarding the human rights violations in the Sudan right now?


[/ QUOTE ]

That's a question you should probably ask your elected representative. As to what it should be, tell me what our national interest (if any) is in the Sudan, and then we can discuss it.

[Felix_Nietsche]

By the way, why is Australia not red? They did vote John Howard back into office.... But I guess that would screw up the blue/red ratio....

Liberals think this is high school where you have to be popular........ Maybe it is time to grow up and base your decisions on values and principles rather than what others think....

[lorinda]

http://www.president-bush.com/twat.gif

Lori