Draw/No Overcard vs. A Big Pair On 4th. St.

Hello, Players,

You have a drawing hand with no over card against an opponent with a big pair.

Would you continue with your hand heads-up?

In a no ante game? In a 20-40 game with a 3 ante?


All responses are appreciated.


Sitting Bull

if there are just the two of you in this hand, then it is unlikely that the pot odds will be large enough to overcome the "drawing" odds


but not impossible, so this is another of those "it depends" situations.....boils down to --if payoff is large enough to justify the risk

seven stud--


a big pair against a small straight draw is close and against a flush draw the flush draw is a nice favorite say about 6 to 5 or better depending on dead cards and the hands.

i can think of no time i would fold the draw. as you also figure to win more bets than you lose.

Generally no but there are situations where I might. Presuming you are talking about third street I wouldnt play at all in a no ante game. In 20-40 I might depending on the opponent and whether I can get free cards or not, and my hand is live. This is especially true if one of his cards is dead and mine is completely live on pairs etc.


pat

Are you implying by your message title that you've now made a four-flush or four-straight on 4th street, your cards are reasonably live, and you're heads-up against a big pair? If this is the case then you are in excellent shape even against a pair of Aces--check out p. 103 of Othmer's 7-stud book for some examples. Whether your cards are live or dead vs your opponent's determines whether you're a slight favorite or a slight dog.


On the other hand if you didn't improve on 4th street and still just have a three-flush or three-straight, then it's folding time unless you can play for free.

having a draw in poker has always been known as a four card hand needing one to fill. im starting to see alot of peole using having a drawing hand to mean starting hands and other. its too confusing for me anyway, to use a draw as something other than a four card hand.

You are right. I read the post as referring to a draw as three cards. In fact I was puzzled by your post and now I understand why. I would never fold a four card draw either. One problem is that the original post did not mention what street was referred to, which is why i presumed it was asking about third street.


Pat

With a four card draw you should almost never fold this hand. If your hand is completely live or has one dead card you are approx 50% to make the flush or straight depending on the amount of cards you see. With an overcard showing against an opponent with a smaller pair this is an almost automatic raise on fourth street. Even without the overcard I would tend to raise but not always since you dont want it to be obvious. The only time I would fold is if my opponent had trips.


pat

Dear Ray,


Thank you for the clarification.


After reading your post, I went through my references and found that, I had been incorrectly refering to a "three flush" as a "flush draw."


The reference that I found concerning tne origen of the word draw states (a contraction from the phrase "to draw out" or to be the recipient of a "FINAL" card which makes a hand")


Trust, but verify!


Thanks again for your clarification


Personal regards,


Doc AZ

Hello,Doc,

A 3-flush is a backdoor flush draw;a3-str.,a backdoor str.draw.

Some Hold'em players consider a small or medium pocket pair a drawing hand.

In stud,if I have a medium pocket pair and several players call a raise from a big pair on 3rd,,I take a card off. I consider my buried pair a drawing hand. So it's not that clear-cut what is meant by a "drawing hand".


Sitting Bull