12-24-2001, 06:54 PM
Maximizing your profit from stud's "Money
hands"
A discussion of the "marginal hand complex"
Synopsis : And introduction to the group of starting hands that make up the marginal hand complex. And an explanation of the importance of developing a correct strategy for their play.
If you want a relatively safe way to generate a modest return on your investment while playing seven card stud, then your safest method is to use a strategic system which has a rather rigid set of starting hand requirements. And one which also has a rigid set of requirements as to when and how to continue with your hands.
And there is NOTHING wrong with that approach. Some studies have shown that only 5% to 2% of players are long term winners at Casino poker. And if you can play at the level that you are making money at the game, you are doing well, what ever strategy you are using.
But once you become more sophisticated in your skills, if you want to maximize your profit from playing Stud, then you are going to need to expand your game strategy, and look for extra opportunities to make money on your starting hands.
These extra playable hands are what I refer to as "The Marginal hand complex"
I should forewarn you that, I feel that there are only two basic ways to be able to play this group of hands profitably.
]
The first is to be born "with a natural gift for the game"( which I feel is probably a latent expression, of one of the recessive genes for autism, (The "Rain Man" would be an example, not of a recessive expression, but rather of a full blown true dominant gene's expression) But if you aren't one of those, one in a quarter million "gifted players" (which I am not ) then you are going to have to rely on a "feel for the game" that you have developed though long hours at the table, and also often through long hours hitting "the books"( Participating in twoplustwo incidentally is an excellent way to "hit the books")
If you aren't at this stage of sophistication in your career yet, your best approach is to slowly integrate this class of starting hands into your strategic inventory. Starting with the strongest of the marginal hands, and then slowly progressing to playing the weaker marginal starting hands.
Maximizing the profit we generate from playing seven card Stud is often not as much a function of how we play our big hands.(Every one plays a starting hand that is made up of a set of Aces well) Nor is it so much a function of avoiding weak starting hands. (We all know when to muck "that rainbow pile of dead rags")
Maximizing our profit often comes from properly playing the marginal starting hands we are dealt.
I am not aware of any poker book that has detailed all of the considerations involved in playing the "marginal starting hands complex". This is true simply because of the complexity of the topic. If you went into that depth of detail on all of the different aspects of poker, you wouldn't have a book, but rather an encyclopedia of poker.
Marginal starting hands often can only be played out of specific positions, and under the specific conditions. And continuing with these hands past third street often require a through analysis of the potential strength of your hand in proportion to the changing potential strengths of your opponents probable hands. And to be able to analyze the game at that depth requires a through knowledge of the same.
Also Marginal starting hands often have to be analyzed with a four dimensional perspective (calculating their flush, straight, pair and potential pair probabilities both additively and simultaneously) in order to determine if their potential profit outweighs the potential risk of playing the hand. This is one of the three main reasons that Stud is the most challenging form of poker to master. And I also feel that, that is why it is also the most appealing form of poker to the player that enjoys a challenge..
What I suggest we do, as a forum, is to take the time and effort required to analyze the various marginal starting hands in the depth that is required for them to be played profitably.
A thorough analyses should include a listing of the potential hands. The conditions under which they can be played. The potential unique risks that each hand carries. And the strategies needed to know which actions should be taken to play the hands optimally.
Marginal Starting Hand Complex : Theorem NO. 1
The greater the ante to the primary bet ratio, the greater the variety of marginal starting hands that have to be included in our strategic arsenal if we are going to beat both our opponents and the rake.
For example : A player should consider playing a larger variety of marginal starting hands, if he is playing in a game of stud with a split betting structure of $5 / $ 10 dollars, which has a $ 1 dollar ante, than he would with a 50 cent ante.
While, on the other hand, if a player is playing in no ante game he should only rarely, if ever play marginal starting hands.( see chapter 4 of David Sklansky's" The theory of poker" for an in depth discussion of this concept")
To start our analysis, I suggest that we start with the sub set of hands that carry the least risk. And that we analyze them under the most appropriate conditions.
One example would be in loose passive games, which have had a minimal amount of third and fourth street raising. And I suggest that we consider the play of these hands out of last position, only in hands in which 3 opponents have already called the bring in bet, and in which no completion of the bring in bet has yet been made.
I am going to follow this posting with another posting reviewing how I would analyze a particular marginal starting hand. For this first example I am going to discuss the considerations of playing a starting hand which contains "Two big cards with a two flush."
I would appreciate any opinions, and or criticisms by our forum members of my analysis and of this discussion.
If other members have other marginal starting hands that they would like to analyze, those topics would be appreciated. I propose that as a Stud forum we progressively review the entire spectrum of the "Marginal hand complex."
PS. And this project will take a hell of a lot of work, but what better use can we make of our time, while we sit here waiting for our game to get called down.
Most sincerely,
Doc AZ
hands"
A discussion of the "marginal hand complex"
Synopsis : And introduction to the group of starting hands that make up the marginal hand complex. And an explanation of the importance of developing a correct strategy for their play.
If you want a relatively safe way to generate a modest return on your investment while playing seven card stud, then your safest method is to use a strategic system which has a rather rigid set of starting hand requirements. And one which also has a rigid set of requirements as to when and how to continue with your hands.
And there is NOTHING wrong with that approach. Some studies have shown that only 5% to 2% of players are long term winners at Casino poker. And if you can play at the level that you are making money at the game, you are doing well, what ever strategy you are using.
But once you become more sophisticated in your skills, if you want to maximize your profit from playing Stud, then you are going to need to expand your game strategy, and look for extra opportunities to make money on your starting hands.
These extra playable hands are what I refer to as "The Marginal hand complex"
I should forewarn you that, I feel that there are only two basic ways to be able to play this group of hands profitably.
]
The first is to be born "with a natural gift for the game"( which I feel is probably a latent expression, of one of the recessive genes for autism, (The "Rain Man" would be an example, not of a recessive expression, but rather of a full blown true dominant gene's expression) But if you aren't one of those, one in a quarter million "gifted players" (which I am not ) then you are going to have to rely on a "feel for the game" that you have developed though long hours at the table, and also often through long hours hitting "the books"( Participating in twoplustwo incidentally is an excellent way to "hit the books")
If you aren't at this stage of sophistication in your career yet, your best approach is to slowly integrate this class of starting hands into your strategic inventory. Starting with the strongest of the marginal hands, and then slowly progressing to playing the weaker marginal starting hands.
Maximizing the profit we generate from playing seven card Stud is often not as much a function of how we play our big hands.(Every one plays a starting hand that is made up of a set of Aces well) Nor is it so much a function of avoiding weak starting hands. (We all know when to muck "that rainbow pile of dead rags")
Maximizing our profit often comes from properly playing the marginal starting hands we are dealt.
I am not aware of any poker book that has detailed all of the considerations involved in playing the "marginal starting hands complex". This is true simply because of the complexity of the topic. If you went into that depth of detail on all of the different aspects of poker, you wouldn't have a book, but rather an encyclopedia of poker.
Marginal starting hands often can only be played out of specific positions, and under the specific conditions. And continuing with these hands past third street often require a through analysis of the potential strength of your hand in proportion to the changing potential strengths of your opponents probable hands. And to be able to analyze the game at that depth requires a through knowledge of the same.
Also Marginal starting hands often have to be analyzed with a four dimensional perspective (calculating their flush, straight, pair and potential pair probabilities both additively and simultaneously) in order to determine if their potential profit outweighs the potential risk of playing the hand. This is one of the three main reasons that Stud is the most challenging form of poker to master. And I also feel that, that is why it is also the most appealing form of poker to the player that enjoys a challenge..
What I suggest we do, as a forum, is to take the time and effort required to analyze the various marginal starting hands in the depth that is required for them to be played profitably.
A thorough analyses should include a listing of the potential hands. The conditions under which they can be played. The potential unique risks that each hand carries. And the strategies needed to know which actions should be taken to play the hands optimally.
Marginal Starting Hand Complex : Theorem NO. 1
The greater the ante to the primary bet ratio, the greater the variety of marginal starting hands that have to be included in our strategic arsenal if we are going to beat both our opponents and the rake.
For example : A player should consider playing a larger variety of marginal starting hands, if he is playing in a game of stud with a split betting structure of $5 / $ 10 dollars, which has a $ 1 dollar ante, than he would with a 50 cent ante.
While, on the other hand, if a player is playing in no ante game he should only rarely, if ever play marginal starting hands.( see chapter 4 of David Sklansky's" The theory of poker" for an in depth discussion of this concept")
To start our analysis, I suggest that we start with the sub set of hands that carry the least risk. And that we analyze them under the most appropriate conditions.
One example would be in loose passive games, which have had a minimal amount of third and fourth street raising. And I suggest that we consider the play of these hands out of last position, only in hands in which 3 opponents have already called the bring in bet, and in which no completion of the bring in bet has yet been made.
I am going to follow this posting with another posting reviewing how I would analyze a particular marginal starting hand. For this first example I am going to discuss the considerations of playing a starting hand which contains "Two big cards with a two flush."
I would appreciate any opinions, and or criticisms by our forum members of my analysis and of this discussion.
If other members have other marginal starting hands that they would like to analyze, those topics would be appreciated. I propose that as a Stud forum we progressively review the entire spectrum of the "Marginal hand complex."
PS. And this project will take a hell of a lot of work, but what better use can we make of our time, while we sit here waiting for our game to get called down.
Most sincerely,
Doc AZ