3-handed river check-raise

[Nate tha' Great]

15/30 Party, full table but there are only 3 of us.

I'm the SB here. BB is a Party 15/30 regular but not of 2+2 caliber. Probably a small winner, competent but not much more than that. Just sort of average. My table image is fairly good, insofar as it can be in a 3-handed game.

Anyway the Button folds and I raise with K /images/graemlins/heart.gif 9 /images/graemlins/club.gif. BB calls.

The flop is 2 /images/graemlins/spade.gif 4 /images/graemlins/spade.gif 6 /images/graemlins/spade.gif. I bet and BB calls.

Turn is K /images/graemlins/diamond.gif. I bet and am called.

River is 3 /images/graemlins/heart.gif. I check, intending to raise.

Standard?

[stripsqueez]

i dont think its standard

what are you playing him for ? - might be unimaginative but i would like to play him for a crappy pair that was going to call a bet but otherwsie check the river

perhaps your playing for him to value bet his crappy pair but that seems a dodgy plan unless you think he will do so

stripsqueez - chickenhawk

[theBruiser500]

I can't tell if you're trying to make him call with a worse hand or fold a better hand on the river, I'd just bet out.

[TJD]

I might check/call to induce a missed flush draw to represent a rivered str8 but I would not raise.

My logic would be that if he were bluffing he would fold so I gain nothing; if he HAS a hand I will lose an extra bet (or 2 if I decided to call his reraise and was wrong).

Of course if he has a small pair then I may have wished I bet since he will not necessarily bet for value if I check. It's close I think.

I have been known to be wrong /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Trevor

[Michael Davis]

This looks like the worst type of board to try this play.

-Michael

[Trix]

I think he may be likely to put you on a missed draw whether you check or bet, so I dont see any reasons to give him the option of checking behind, when he will call most of the time.
I dont think he has a draw very often there, dont they usually give more action with those ?

CRing and getting 3bet when he has 5xXs also kind of sucks, unless you are happy folding here. It´s probably not a big factor as you are ahead very often imo.

He also wont always call the CR either.

Your good table image probably doesnt help you either.

[rtucker5]

The river check-raise is a bad idea. Either check with the intention of calling, or bet out. If you want to put in a check-raise in this hand, the turn was the street to do it on.

[exist]

nate, i think this play is fine, although betting out is better if he won't bet the small pairs. he doesn't have a flush and he isn't likely to have a five. he will probably bet many busted spade draws but he isn't too wimpy to bet a smaller pair here is he? i assume by your actions on the river you think he would bet one of the 2's, 3's, 4's, or 6's. he will call the river check raise if he has a pair virtually every time. if he will bet some of the small pairs, then yes a check raise is good.

[fnord_too]

I bet here against most players, and check call most of the others. I may, in rare cases, check raise if I think the person will both bet and call a raise with a lesser hand. If I think someone is capable of a bluff raise here, I check call, and if I don't I bet/fold to a raise.

The problem I see with a check raise, even three handed, is it's hard to imagine who is going to call the raise with a hand you beat. A weaker king would have played back by now, and a smaller pair will likely fold with a three flush, four straight, and overcard on the board if it bets. (In fact, the only hands I see betting behind your check here are a busted draw, flush, or straight. I think a small set would have bet before now, but I suppose that is also a hand that may wait until the river to wake up against one opponent.)

[Nate tha' Great]

Opponent bet, I raised, he called. He had J /images/graemlins/heart.gif 6 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif and my hand was good.

I'm surprised that everyone disliked my plan so much. I thought there was a good chance that he had little more than a mid-high flush card, like the 9 of /images/graemlins/spade.gif, and so checking would have been the best way to extract money out of him (I think he would have raised the flop with a higher /images/graemlins/spade.gif). I also think there was a decent chance of him value betting if he had a hand like the one he held, figuring I was trying to gain free showdown with something like A /images/graemlins/spade.gif x. As for the thought that he would fold to my check-raise - I think he'll fold if he has nothing at all, but if that is the case then I might at least get the one bet out of him by checking versus nothing otherwise.

[Chris Daddy Cool]

in these sb blind steal situations, you'll be surprised just how often the bb bets the river when checked to even after just calling pf, flop, and turn.

though there are a lot of other players who are content with showing down their middle pair cheaply.

so, in short, it depends.