Where to start limit hold'em, I have $2400???

[Talk2BigSteve]

I have saved up $2,400 for playing poker.

I have played here and there in B&Ms and have done well but not all of that has been from poker. This $2,400 is strictly for poker!!!

At the Indian B&M 30 minutes from here the lowest game is 3/6 Texas Hold'em and when I have played before it has been full of fish just wanting to do something while their wives played slots.

I have read that you should have a bankroll of 300BB. I purposely saved 400BB just to prove to myself that I had the discipline to do it, and because I wasn't finished reading SSHE.

According to the State Gaming Commission internet gambling is Illegal in Mississippi so I will be at a B&M for my hours of single tables.

Anything I should do before I start on my Poker Journey. Any help or advice will be greatly appreciated.

Living, Learning, and Laughing.
Big Steve /images/graemlins/cool.gif

[bisonbison]

If you don't want to play online, then it seems that the 3/6 game is right for you. Be aware that the rake and tipping structures of such games make them hard to beat despite the extremely soft games. Also, because you're getting about 30 hands/hr, expect the long run to be years of regular play away.

If you decide to play online, start at Party .5/1.

[A_C_Slater]

[ QUOTE ]
If you don't want to play online, then it seems that the 3/6 game is right for you. Be aware that the rake and tipping structures of such games make them hard to beat despite the extremely soft games. Also, because you're getting about 30 hands/hr, expect the long run to be years of regular play away.

If you decide to play online, start at Party .5/1.

[/ QUOTE ]

How long do you figure it would take him to build
his roll up to 4000 and move on to 5/10?

Assuming he's a winning player, of course.

[bisonbison]

I don't know. The math is pretty simple, though if you want to do it.

[DesertCat]

[ QUOTE ]
How long do you figure it would take him to build
his roll up to 4000 and move on to 5/10?

[/ QUOTE ]

I just broke $4k tonight, and I'm just working into the 5/10 SH games. It's been about two and a half months of part-time (30 hour weeks) effort, starting with $600k (and taking out $1600 for expenses). I try not to think about what my hourly rate has been /images/graemlins/frown.gif

Of course I've also been on the positive side of variance lately. One question is he willing to put in the time studying? I worked my way through Lee Jones, then Carson, and finally SSH, and this forum.

[JimRivett]

Usually low limit live games are almost unbeatable because of the rake, and what that rake is will determine if you can beat the game or not. In addition to the rake it's not uncommon for the card room to drop another $1 from the pot for the "bad beat jackpot". Add that to the rake and you could be looking at a small bet coming out of each pot.

Online low limit games are much easier because of the low rake and the number of hands you are dealt, plus the ability to play in more than one table at a time.

Perhaps you should think about relocating /images/graemlins/wink.gif

Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

Jim

[A_C_Slater]

lets see.

He needs $1600 to move up.

$1600/$6= 266.6 hrs. assuming a win rate of 1 bb hr.

266.6/ 24= about 11 days

you can move up to 5-10 after playing for 11 straight days.

Is it safe to assume this? Can the rake factor be ignored
due to the conservative 1 BB/hr estimate?

He doesn't really have to wallow in 3-6 for years, does
he bison?

[DesertCat]

[ QUOTE ]
How long do you figure it would take him to build
his roll up to 4000 and move on to 5/10?

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh, I just got that you were asking about B&M. I think at 3/6, literally forever /images/graemlins/grin.gif, as Bison already said, the ancillary costs are just too high.

Seriously, I'm still a loser at 3/6 B&M. But I'm a winner at 4/8, 6/12 and 8/16. I would recommend starting at 4/8 or 6/12 unless he seriously can never replenish his bankroll. If you are a good player, I don't feel you need 300BB at the low limit B&M games because the players are so bad. But if you aren't a good player, nothings going to save your bankroll (except study and effort).

[Brain]

Don't forget about tipping.

[A_C_Slater]

[ QUOTE ]
Don't forget about tipping.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'll assume he treats the dealer like a mindless automaton,
like I do, and never tips because the dealer has
no affect on the outcome of the cards.

Tipping the dealer is an archaic superstition as wrong
as asking for a deck change or switching seats.

[MicroBob]

I already replied to this exact same post in the B&M forum.
It is worth noting that his assertion that online-gambling is illegal is not correct.
The legality of internet-gaming in the entire country is very much in a legal grey-area.

The sites are still advertising for crying out loud (not just on TV which has been curtailed but also on the internet and in magazines).
It's not like the Mississippi state troopers are going to come knocking on your door. there really isn't anything to worry about.

[bobdibble]

[ QUOTE ]
Tipping the dealer is an archaic superstition as wrong as asking for a deck change or switching seats.

[/ QUOTE ]

Dude, that's wrong. Maybe it is different in other places, but at the place I play dealers make less than minimum wage because they are expected to have their income augmented by tips. Not tipping a dealer is equivalent to not tipping a waitress when you are at a restraunt.

[A_C_Slater]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Tipping the dealer is an archaic superstition as wrong as asking for a deck change or switching seats.

[/ QUOTE ]

Dude, that's wrong. Maybe it is different in other places, but at the place I play dealers make less than minimum wage because they are expected to have their income augmented by tips. Not tipping a dealer is equivalent to not tipping a waitress when you are at a restraunt.

[/ QUOTE ]

I play in Detroit at Greektown and Motorcity, the dealers
here make over $10 an hour and all their tips are pooled together. Which comes to about $20 an hour for them.

I play 5-10.

I refuse to tip someone who has a higher hourly EV than
I do.

Screw them!

Oh yea, I tip restaurant servers 20-25% religiously.

I'm not a tight wad, it's a principal, there's
principalities involved in this.

Don't you understand?

[bobdibble]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Tipping the dealer is an archaic superstition as wrong as asking for a deck change or switching seats.

[/ QUOTE ]

Dude, that's wrong. Maybe it is different in other places, but at the place I play dealers make less than minimum wage because they are expected to have their income augmented by tips. Not tipping a dealer is equivalent to not tipping a waitress when you are at a restraunt.

[/ QUOTE ]

I play in Detroit at Greektown and Motorcity, the dealers
here make over $10 an hour and all their tips are pooled together. Which comes to about $20 an hour for them.

I play 5-10.

I refuse to tip someone who has a higher hourly EV than
I do.

Screw them!

Oh yea, I tip restaurant servers 20-25% religiously.

I'm not a tight wad, it's a principal, there's
principalities involved in this.

Don't you understand?

[/ QUOTE ]

I understand, and your situation is mitigated somewhat because your dealers make more than minimum wage.. ($3/hr stands out in my mind as what I heard one of our local dealers makes as a base without tips)

In any case, I think the restraunt analogy still stands. There are people in restraunts that make more than minimum, but tipping is customary and is considered part of their compensation.

btw, pooling is dumb, both in poker and in restraunts. They might as well just charge more for the food/rake and pay the staff more from that. Ideally, tipping a dealer/restraunt staff would reward those that deal/serve fastest/best. Pooling does away with that individual reward -- on the other hand, it smooths out the variance associated with people that choose not to tip because they disagre with the compensation structure for the support staff.

[Shillx]

You must play at Casino Arizona where everyone is a winner. What a gold mine. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[brandon]

Ive tried playing casino az 3/6 and I cant stand it. Im used to seeing 100+ hands an hour on the internet and I get out there and see 30 hands an hour. Bores me to death. I can win 3BB/100 at party 3/6 but I win nothing at the casino.

Next time I go im going to play $6/$12 or maybe $10/$20

[Reef]

make sure to pee and eat before you go. Oh, and sleep too

[Shillx]

Never played them...but heard really good things about those games. I only played 3/6 but I always made enough to have a blast at the clubs that night. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

The Shill

[A_C_Slater]

I agree that pooling is wrong and even communistic.
The whole intent behind tipping is that it rewards
good service.

In the case of pooling, even the inept dealers and
the waitresses who take over an hour to bring
you a friggin beer while you're sitting at the table
get rewarded.

These people don't deserve tips.

I tip dealers only if they're extremly fast, but I know
this doesn't really matter because it gets pooled and
all the hacks get a piece of it anyway.

[BusterStacks]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Tipping the dealer is an archaic superstition as wrong as asking for a deck change or switching seats.

[/ QUOTE ]

Dude, that's wrong. Maybe it is different in other places, but at the place I play dealers make less than minimum wage because they are expected to have their income augmented by tips. Not tipping a dealer is equivalent to not tipping a waitress when you are at a restraunt.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's your big finish? I am not beyond stiffing a waitress. I tip based on service ALONE. You start with nothing in my book.

[aron]

I've never played poker live but the whole tip issue seems kind of interesting (maybe it should have it's own thread somewhere).
Also, I am from sweden where tipping (in general) isn't expected unless youre in some really posh place.

Tipping because its customary just seems like plain stupid. Thought the tip was supposed to mean something.

Anyway, just wondering how casinotipping works (since I'm bound to play live sometime). Youre supposed to tip after winning big hands or what?

[thirddan]

it is standard to tip after every hand you win...at 3/6 i tip $1 if the pot is decent size, but never more. If the pot is small then i just tell the dealer i will get them next time, if i win another pot during their down then i will tip them an extra dollar if the pot is really big or just the standard dollar on an average pot...some people that play for fun tip huge, 3-6 dollar per hand, that kinda makes me mad since that is 1 SB they take off the table every time they win a hand...

[DesertCat]

[ QUOTE ]
You must play at Casino Arizona where everyone is a winner. What a gold mine

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm a huge chip donor at the 3/6 there. Of course almost all of this was pre-SSH for me. But I calculated my costs for tips, rake, jackpot, etc, and realized how hard it was to break even and moved up. My last session was at 6/12 and it was as loose as any game I'd ever played. One guy (in between Coronas) was constantly raising his 45o hands preflop. Of course he hit several straights and two pairs and took down some huge pots. After a couple hands like that, I asked him to pinch me in case I was dreaming. He didn't get it, thought I was gay or something (well I did offer to pay for his next beer)...

[arkady]

[ QUOTE ]
starting with $600k (and taking out $1600 for expenses).

[/ QUOTE ]

damn! you are loaded.

[Hermlord]

[ QUOTE ]

Tipping the dealer is an archaic superstition as wrong
as asking for a deck change or switching seats.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is precisely why I tip. I play $3/6 B&M purely for fun, because live poker has a lot of character and social elements, and their chips are higher quality than the ones online :-) So I tip to keep the dealers friendly and because it makes me happy to help them out.

I am perfectly happy to break even (though I typically leave with $50 for my eight hours of work). At some point, when I get a bigger bankroll and move up limits, I'll start playing for real profit. But right now all my $$$ comes from online.

[cnfuzzd]

Seriously, just play online. I think there are more than a handfull of 2+2ers playing online in mississipi. Dont sweat breaking the law. Unless you are one of those people...

peace

john nickle

[sublime]

dude, break the law. it will make u better in bed.


and post stuff like this in the general forum

[MicroBob]

FWIW -
A lot of poker-rooms don't pool the tips.
In Tunica....I'm pretty sure ALL poker-dealers keep their own tips.

I dealt BJ at a non-poker casino and we pooled (8 out of 9 casinos in Tunica pool the tips...except for poker).
It kind of evens out. I was friendlier....and speak English....so I got more tips generally.

But if some dealer on Caribbean-Stud deals out a huge jackpot hand and gets a $1k tip or something then it's kind of unfair to exclude everyone else.
What if he dealt the winning-hand while I was on break after having dealt the game for 8 hours? Does he deserve $1k and I deserve nothing?
Who knows.

Also - think of the graveyard shift people who are stuck there working a tougher shift (2a-10a or 4a-12p perhaps) but getting fewer tips overall. I think this is a good reason for them to be pooled as well.
The swing-shift dealers are generally busier of course....but those graveyard hours really SUCK....and I don't think swing-shift dealers deserve twice as much just because they actually have some customers.

Just some general thoughts.

[gaming_mouse]

[ QUOTE ]
dude, break the law. it will make u better in bed.

[/ QUOTE ]

hilarious. and so true.

gm

[gaming_mouse]

[ QUOTE ]
and post stuff like this in the general forum

[/ QUOTE ]

actually, sublime, you are wrong there. it belongs in the sunday school forum.

gm

[private joker]

[ QUOTE ]
it is standard to tip after every hand you win...at 3/6 i tip $1 if the pot is decent size, but never more. If the pot is small then i just tell the dealer i will get them next time

[/ QUOTE ]

This is my rule of thumb as well. (I only play B&M, 2/4 or 3/6). Tip a buck for a medium-large pot, wait for the next one on a small pot. Once, at a 2-4 table, I won a medium-sized pot with AA, and tipped the dealer my customary dollar. He looked at me, took the chip, flipped it, and goes "thanks a LOT!" in the snidest tone conceivable. One of the elderly regulars at the table looked at the dealer in commiseration and shook her head. Then she glared at me. Evidently, this casino feels that getting dealt pocket aces is a bonus gift from the dealer and should be rewarded with a much larger tip. I chose not to participate in said custom.