Six Limpers -- Raise AJo??

[gaming_mouse]

Loose passive 2/4 Pacific Poker

Hero BB with A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif J/images/graemlins/spade.gif

UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, 3 folds, SB completes, Hero ??

I raised here but afterwards questioned the raise. On the one hand, AQ or AK would have almost certainly raised at this table, so I probably have the best of it. On the other hand, by raising here I'm tieing drawing hands to a pot that I hope to win with top pair. Was I wrong to raise?

gm

[Entity]

I think this has been argued a few times over; I don't raise it, but I know others that do, and I don't think it's a terrible raise. Same goes for raising it from the SB.

Rob

[ThePimpulator]

I think SSH mentions that with so many in the hand it could well be better to make your raises after the flop when your advantage is greater. With so many in, your advantage is not so great with AJo PF.

[soko]

You are raising for value, most likely nobody will fold after they bet preflop. It's 7 handed so you are very unlikely to win with just top pair so in my opinion I would raher look for an Ace for free then pay to see a K or a Q flop then have to fold.

[MoreWineII]

Personally, I don't usually raise in this spot. I think you have a wee bit of value with the hand, but I think that tiny bit of value might be negated by your awful position.

[Blake Lovely]

agreed, check along and see the flop.

[Jeff W]

I raise AJo in an unraised pot from any position under any circumstances at small stakes. Opponents will limp with dominated aces and you are unlikely to be against a dominating hand.

For the posters who advocate checking, what percent of hands are you raising pre flop? Would you raise KQo in this spot? I raise 10-11% pre flop and I'm wondering if this debate is one over general aggression levels or marginal offsuit hands in multiway pots.

It seems I am in the minority. I'd like to hear what some of the players with very aggressive pre flop raising standards have to say.

[Nate tha' Great]

[ QUOTE ]
It seems I am in the minority. I'd like to hear what some of the players with very aggressive pre flop raising standards have to say.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm very aggressive preflop but I think this is an easy non-raise.

It's true that you probably have a bit of a preflop edge, and it's also true that you should rarely sacrifice much of any preflop equity edge in a small stakes game in which your opponents play badly. However, I think you have pretty much a perfect storm of circumstances working against a raise:

1) You have poor position
2) The only opponent that you could knock out is the BB
3) You have a one-pair type of hand that plays somewhat better in an unraised pot
4) The equity advantage of this hand is not all that large.

I'd probably raise AQo here, but with AJo I think a raise makes your life harder.

[huxbux]

[ QUOTE ]
I raise AJo in an unraised pot from any position under any circumstances at small stakes. Opponents will limp with dominated aces and you are unlikely to be against a dominating hand.

For the posters who advocate checking, what percent of hands are you raising pre flop? Would you raise KQo in this spot? I raise 10-11% pre flop and I'm wondering if this debate is one over general aggression levels or marginal offsuit hands in multiway pots.

It seems I am in the minority. I'd like to hear what some of the players with very aggressive pre flop raising standards have to say.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am not an overly aggressive PFR, at only 7-8%, but IMO it's a debate about marginal offsuit hands in a multiway pot. While AJo will often dominate limpers hands, there's not much AJo will find on the flop to continue with unless you flop a pair. If you miss with a marginal offsuit hand on a semi-coordinated board, your left with a poor draw to a pair, while several of the limpers will find something to continue with. While your pot equity is marginal preflop, it will change drastically on the flop. A case could be made that you should push that marginal edge while it's there, but for me at least, with the disadvantage of my position, I prefer to pass on that edge to see how it changes on the flop. When I don't have a hand that can hit the flop in multiple ways, I'm out of position in the blinds, and my predominate method of winning the pot with TPGK against numerous opponents, I check and/or complete here. But in the end, I see it as such a marginal decision either way, that there is no right or wrong answer. Just my opinion, and probably a poor one at that.

[Sent]

From the BB? Check it.

-Sent

[gaming_mouse]

[ QUOTE ]
I'd probably raise AQo here, but with AJo I think a raise makes your life harder.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nate, could you extrapolate on this? It seems to me that all the reasons you gave for not raising AJo apply equally well (almost) to AQo.

Thanks,
gm