One of the "other" WSOP04 episodes has surfaced!

[ClaytonN]

$3,000 NLHE with Phillips, Vaswani, and Cernuto is airing right now (6:00PM EST) on ESPN2!!!

[random]

If I was Paul, I'd be happy to leave that jackass chewing his gum like a monkey.

[ripridah]

what crappy play, no wonder they didn't show it

[Paul Phillips]

Shoot, my tivo didn't grab it.

Anyone want to share details? Naturally I'm mostly curious which hands of mine they showed. I guess with the one hour format we may see nothing beyond my bustout hand (which isn't all that exciting.)

[random]

You made it 50 to go, some dude made it 150, you pushed. Flop 89T turn K river 6 and your QQ loses to 77. That's the only hand i remember besides the 44.

[Wheezl]

Yeah, that was terrible.

[ClaytonN]

[ QUOTE ]
Shoot, my tivo didn't grab it.

Anyone want to share details? Naturally I'm mostly curious which hands of mine they showed. I guess with the one hour format we may see nothing beyond my bustout hand (which isn't all that exciting.)

[/ QUOTE ]

Gladly! Though this will be straight from memory, as I can't find any online reports to aid me.

I'm just gonna rattle all the hands I remember. You were only in a few. 3 at most, I think (?)

I think we both know why this didn't get shown with the main batch of episodes. The plays Mike Sica made were god-awful, and he lucked out on some established players including yourself.

There were cutaway interviews with Vaswani and Cernuto. I can't quite remember what "The Nuts" was about, but I remember them using clips from their interview with you.

So here we go:

-They did a quick shot of Yusuf Kurt exiting. No hands.

-For a while they showed Cernuto surviving. His 77 doubling through the 66. Eventually they showed his QT getting busted by Aces.

-They showed Vaswani doubling through your 10 /images/graemlins/heart.gif8 /images/graemlins/heart.gif with his Kings. You obviously made too big a raise PF, so you had to mathematically call.

-They showed Mickey Mills last hand (I think it was KQs vs. Vaswani's ATo)

-They showed Kabbaj hitting his six-outer with 77 vs. your queens

-I think the very next hand was your 44 vs. Sica's KQ

From there it just went waaaaay downhill. The plays were just laughable from Sica and Kabbaj, when there was a decision to be made.

-Persson getting eliminated with 88 vs. Vaswani's AQ, they came into action halfway through the hand from a commercial

-Kelleher's QQ vs. Kabbaj's KK

-Vaswani making a move with A5 and Sica calling with K2 (!!!!) and making a river flush to cripple Vaswani

-Vaswani moving with 88, still a decent stack, Sica calls with QJ (!!!!!)

-Then they showed 2 HU hands, first Kabbaj taking down a smallish pot. Sica raised PF with K2, Kabbaj called with T9. No cards hit for either on the board, Kabbaj won with aggresion on the turn.

-Then of course the final hand. This one should be critiqued by you, Mr. Phillips.

Kabbaj holds K9o, no spades
Sica holds Queens, no spades

Kabbaj calls the BB of 30k, Sica makes it 70k. Kabbaj calls.

Flop comes J /images/graemlins/spade.gif9 /images/graemlins/spade.gif5 /images/graemlins/spade.gif

Both have stacks of around 900k still. Sica moves in, and Kabbaj calls. Kabbaj says "Let's gamble!" before calling. I would only assume that Kabbaj thought Sica had the nut flush draw or king flush draw, but certainly a questionable play.

Sorry for the lengthy post, hope this helps.

[Daliman]

Yeah, there was some horredous play in the final stages there, yet I'm not going to say it is from Mike Sica.

Mike Sica is an amateur. His plays, while definitely not good, for the positions he was in in each case, were at a minimum, reasonable. To wit;

He raises PP, PP pushes. Not sure of the #'s(Damnit ESPN!), but pretty sure he was getting close to 2-1. KQ not a great hand here, but what's he gonna do, try to outplay the table? ( P.S. I prolly fold here, then outplaying the table ensues! /images/graemlins/cool.gif). Not that it matter to him, but I don't really mind PP's play at all given his position. I'm sure he's relieved.

Sica with ~T310K, raises 3 handed K2o(this play I dont care for at all) to T100K, Ram Vaswani RR's A5s Allin, Sica calls. Here's the Kicker....

RAM BLEW IT!.

Why exactly does he go allin vs a player who will be getting ~2-1 on his call when A5s never wants a call? Turns outs he was in about the best situation he could hope for, yet still was giving proper odds. Two words Ram;

OUT PLAY

Now, it can be said that Ram was making an outplay by RR'ing allin; I can't downplay that aspect, as I don't know the texture of the play at the final table, but what I do know is that Sica had shown a willingness to call large amounts with marginal hands. Why go for the 3? Pound it in to your center, pass it around,look for a better opportunity. (This actually seemed a decent spot for a stop and go to me, which very likely would have worked)

PLAY SMALL BALL VS. THE AMATEUR!

You spent all tournament accumulating chips, then allow a amateur,(and not a very good one, at that, near as I can tell), to have a shot at half of your chips with A5s....

The fact that Sica called with a weak hand is beside the point of Ram wanting him to; Sica could have had any ace or pair there and called much better than he did. Even A2o wouldn't be a terrible dog to A5s. You're a top pro for a reason, and that reason isn't because you win your proper share of races and dominators.

The 88 vs QJ hand is similar, but of course Ram is much stronger here with the 88, and the pot odds call, near as I could tell(Dammit ESPN!) was ~T525K for ~T225K, again, a fairly easy call for a guy who isn't planning on outplaying anyone. I see nothing wrong with calling the reraise and seeing what I think of the flop. Yer a pro, he's a old man. We hear so much about reads for chrissakes, get one!
Considering how much Sica's hand was shaking on the hand to follow, it shouldn't have been too hard

K9 vs QQ. Ok, let me get this straight.... Kabbaj Is a well-respected pro in England, and alarms don't go off in his head when a person who has been initial raising to T100k only REraises from 20k to 70k? Then an allin call for ~800k into a ~ 150K pot with middle pair, no flush draw vs an all spade board? Even if Sica only has overcards with no king to 9's and a single spade, he is still race at best. "Gamble" indeed.

I can't help but think any half decent pro, myself definitely included, with a proper game plan, could have ground Sica down to a squeaking nub with a proper game plan, and if that sounds arrogant of me to include myself, let me assure you, I make better laydowns and plays than the 3 outlined every day for $1000. These guys let half a million be decided on chance when an abundance of skill difference was apparent.

[Kevmath]

It looks like it'll air again Sunday at 5 30pm on ESPN2, but that's a big maybe.

Kevin...

[West]

Just noting that A5s is better than a 2 to 1 fav vs. K2o. Who wouldn't be happy to get all their chips in as this kind of favorite? I would find it hard to fault someone for correctly reading his opponent for weak and going over the top with the best hand.

What were the chip counts, blinds, etc.?

[RogerZBT]

Can I assume for the "other" in the thread title that this episode went unaired during the original run?

Please say yes, because the entire time I was watching it, I thought I was going senile. I couldn't understand how I had forgotten so much.

[wjmooner]

Great post Dali!

WJ

[Daliman]

[ QUOTE ]
Just noting that A5s is better than a 2 to 1 fav vs. K2o. Who wouldn't be happy to get all their chips in as this kind of favorite? I would find it hard to fault someone for correctly reading his opponent for weak and going over the top with the best hand.

What were the chip counts, blinds, etc.?

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, considering that even with as bad a hand as Sica called with, he STILL appeared to be getting proper pot odds,(about 2-1). I'd say that makes a pretty big mistake on the part of Ram. Especially considering he should have known he was giving 2-1 odds where he was not more than a 2-1 favorite vs any hand except 2 undercards to 5(highly unlikely) or a dominated 5(k5, q5, etc..also fairly unlikely). Again, he could have just as easily been against a better ace or pair of 6's on up. Terrible play, Ram should have known better. The fact that he was in as good shape as he was when the cards were flipped up is meaningless.

[West]

Certainly, A5 isn't the worlds strongest hand, and he certainly could have been against an ace-dominator or a dominating pair. But in terms of worrying about the fact that you are giving your opponent ~ 2-1 to call, this is only a problem if you're beat. It doesn't mean you should throw away a favorite (if you think you're the favorite) when your opponent is likely to have odds to call with an underdog. You may be right, it may have been a bad move, but without knowing all factors involved (including how his opponents had been playing), I think you have to consider that he simply liked his chances of having the best hand. If he did, he was right.

[KowCiller]

Anyone have a clue when this is getting broadcast again? I unfortunately missed it yesterday.

KoW

[ClaytonN]

Dali,

Sorry I didn't get the chance to comment sooner, but your post is spot-on. Ram should have played small ball with Sica. However, I don't think math justified Sica's decisions, if you get what I'm saying. He just didn't seem to be the kind of guy who has a branch of math in him. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong, just a guess.

[Daliman]

Funny thing is, I think he's a math teacher /images/graemlins/confused.gif.

Either way, I can't imagine he figured he was ahead, but I have found that;

If you figure the range of hands Vaswani will reraise with vs the number of hands he will just flat call with, expecting to push on an uneventful flop or checkraise allin, and extrapolate further that Ram may have possibly picked up a tell sensing Sica's weakness, then factor for the additional $$$ in the pot, with which the inverse proportion of EV compared to a random hand vs A5s is knwn, especially considering all hot and cold simulation runs, the proper answer as to whether or not a top pro would have played K2o this way is directly equal to

"What the hell, Gambool!"