low limit seven card stud book

I often find my self playing low limit (1-3, 1-5) seven card stud while I am waiting for a 5-10 hold 'em table. I am looking for a good book that can offer me some sound information to improve my results here.

Roy West is a good primer

Hello,Bkism,

"Seven Card Stud For Low And Medium Limits" by Roy West


Sitting Bull

I do not think there are any books that will help you if you already are a winner at 5-10. My advice would be to read the loose games section of 7CSFAP and try to imagine how it will apply to these games. There also has been much discussion fo this on this forum, i.e how to play when the pot is raised versus when you can limp in, the effect of an ante versus no ante etc. I think you will find this more helpful than reading wests book, which is very good but not very advanced for a reasonably acomplished player at 5-10. That is not to say that you should not read it, but that there is a lot more to low limit play than just what is inhis book.


Good luck,

pat

No doubt about it. Get West's book.

I agree . You can adjust the strategies in 7CSFAP to for the lower limits. The West book is real basic stuff and a little too tight for my tastes but a good book for begginers.

John..

pat...i am 5-10 hold 'em player, not stud.

Hello,MRB,

Name me three major specific differences between West's "primer" and Ray Zee's "advanced stud book" in the play of three different hands?


Thanks ***********Sitting Bull*****

Hello,1-5,

It seems to me that 7csfap's guide lines

are tighter than those proposed by West.

Maybe I did not scrutinize both books sufficiently.

Anyway,can you provide 3 illustrations to back up your statement that Ray zee's stud book is looser than west's?(by giving specific hand plays)


Thanks,1-5************Sitting Bull

one major difference is how the hands will be played. west does not discuss plays such as raising with an A high three flush to make a pair, does not have the discussion of antestealing to the same extent as the Green Book, and west I think has you throw away too many hands when the pot is raised since he does not adequately discuss how to play when the raiser is loose as opposed to when he is normal or tight. this is just from the top of my head so if some of this is not totally accurate then I apologize in advance.


pat

I don't own the book but I read a copy a couple of years ago so I'm going by memory here and maybe someone who owns both books can answer your question better.


One problem with West's book is that he doesn't get into the subjects of pot-odds , ante structure and playing loose passive games which is important for the low limits and should be discussed in great detail.

I know a few low limit players that swear by Wests book and they can be best described as 'rocks' and I would estimate that they are small winners at best.

I'm not an expert on West's book so let me know if my description of his book is wrong.

I agree with your assessment. The players Iknow that love west I would also describe as rocks. But they do win more than a little, just because being a rock at low limits is a hell of a lot better than your opponents play. At 5-10 and 10-20 this effect is less noticeably and the rocks will definitely win less.


Pat

"7 Stud the Waiting game" had a great discussion on 3rd street hands and is well worth reading (but not studying nor used as a reference). The rest of that book was horrible and should be torn out and never read.


Basic advice when playing against loose tenacious types: be reasonably sure YOU have the "best" hand when the first real bet goes in. This means that usually YOU make that first bet or raise; but it also means that if someone else bets or raises then you should be reasonably glad, even if you don't 3-bet.


- Louie

Hello,Pat,

You are correct.

West makes the following assumption(s) about low and low-medium limit games: players usually have what they represent at these limits;ante-stealing is not that important at these limits.

There is no ante or very little ante at these limits.

Hence,raising to reduce the field will accomplish one purpose:one or two opponents and very little money in the pot. It's better NOT to raise and retain a field in case your flush becomes a drawing hand.

You will usually scoop more money when you win.

In these games , you are not struggling for the antes--there are usually none to fight for;if there is ,it's not worth fightin for in these games.

Based on one of his hypotheses above,a player who raises usually has a strong hand--especially on the early streets.

His "footnote" says it is up to you to "know your opponents" and to play them accordingly.


Sitting Bull

I like West myself, but his hand analysis (esp. of pairs) is too basic and sometimes self-contradictory. For example, if you're calling a big pair on third street with your medium pair and an overcard kicker, he wants your kicker to be in the hole so you're not forced to check on subsequent streets and show weakness. But if you have a small pair w/overcard kicker, he wants the kicker to be your door card so your opponent thinks you're on a flush draw. Both are interesting ideas, but he doesn't provide enough context to make clear why he advises two different approaches in what are really very similar situations. On the other hand, Sklansky/Zee/Malmuth are harder to follow because of poor writing, but they really do a good job of presenting many different situations and suggesting how to approach them and why. Personally I'd start with West's book, get in some playing time, then move on to the advanced book. They're both useful.