K9s

[Scotch78]

First two orbits, UTG is the only one in my database and he's fairly passive with a VP$IP over 70%.

Hand 1:

I was hoping to get it heads-up with the 3-bet, and on the turn I was still reeling from the cap. I wasn't too worried about a boat, but I was worried about my kicker. In hindsight I'm leaning towards a turn raise, but not positive. Comments on flop and turn?

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif, K/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
UTG <font color="purple">(CS)</font> calls, MP calls, CO folds, Hero calls, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (5 SB) K/images/graemlins/club.gif, T/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue">(5 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">SB bets</font>, BB folds, CS calls, <font color="CC3333">MP raises</font>, <font color="CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, SB calls, CS folds, <font color="CC3333">MP caps</font>, Hero calls, SB calls.

Turn: (9 BB) K/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="CC3333">MP bets</font>, Hero calls, SB calls $1 (All-In).

River: (11.50 BB) K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(3 players, 1 all-in)</font>
MP checks, <font color="CC3333">Hero bets</font>, MP folds.

Final Pot: 12.50 BB

Hand 2:

With three outs to top pair and backdoor possibilities I thought 9.5-1 was good enough. Okay?

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed)

Preflop: Hero is Button with K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
UTG <font color="purple">(CS)</font> calls, MP calls, CO calls, Hero calls, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (6 SB) 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif, T/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(6 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="CC3333">BB bets</font>, CS calls, MP calls, CO calls, Hero calls, SB calls.

Turn: (6 BB) K/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue">(6 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, CS checks, MP checks, CO checks, <font color="CC3333">Hero bets</font>, SB calls, BB folds, CS folds, MP calls, CO calls.

River: (10 BB) K/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, MP checks, CO checks, <font color="CC3333">Hero bets</font>, SB calls, MP folds, CO folds.

Final Pot: 12 BB

[runa]

Hand 1
Did the flop cap scare you into calling on the turn? (afraid of kicker trouble or a set turned full?)

Hand 2
Seems pretty standard, though I'm wondering if anyone recommends raising the flop here. With all those people in you are building a nice pot, and you can always check behind for a freebie on the turn.

[Scotch78]

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 1
Did the flop cap scare you into calling on the turn? (afraid of kicker trouble or a set turned full?)

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
I was hoping to get it heads-up with the 3-bet, and on the turn I was still reeling from the cap. I wasn't too worried about a boat, but I was worried about my kicker.

[/ QUOTE ]

Something like that /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 2
Seems pretty standard, though I'm wondering if anyone recommends raising the flop here. With all those people in you are building a nice pot, and you can always check behind for a freebie on the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

I felt the draw was too weak for anything fancy. I wanted to take one cheap shot at improving and then fold.

[runa]

Hm, maybe I should read more carefully next time. I usually gloss over the beginning part looking for read-specifics before looking at the hand.

With no reads, no raises PF its very difficult to say raise or call on the turn. Since there was no PF raise you might be up against any Kx so I wouldn't necessarily say you're behind. I think that the flop cap could mean anything, but again this is a read-dependent call.

Some 1/2 LAGs will play back automatically when played at, and typical passive players might have a set, bottom 2-pair, or Klittle. Occasionally you'll get a cap with QJ but that's not frequent, and that's the only draw possibility given the flop texture.

You are ahead of most of these with the exception of something like 22, KJ, KT, or even KQ &amp; TT depending how passive preflop the player is, so I'd go out on a limb and say raise.

[jgorham]

I fold hand 2 because I don't think you should count your top pair outs as full outs, and the backdoor straight draw really isn't anything more than .5 outs.

[Scotch78]

The backdoor flush draw is worth 1 out though, and without a pfr what reason do I have to think my kings aren't clean?

Scott

[jgorham]

There is no reason to think it isn't clean specifically, just the fact that even if you hit your K you can (and often will) still lose. That K could give someone else 2 pair, you could be outkicked, someone could already have you beat with a set or two pair etc. I give myself 1.5 to 2 outs for the overcard, .5 for the straight, and 1.5 for the flush which at best is 4 outs. You aren't getting the 10 to 1 so I say fold.

[runa]

This call may look really thin, but he's getting 9:1 which makes his odds fair not to mention decent implied odds with all the callers, very likely closing the action, has great position, and gets a chance to see the turn which would be an easy fold if he misses. I don't think its a horrible call to get all that for just 1 SB.

[Scotch78]

Runa said it all: I'm getting 9.5 to 1 on an 11 to 1 shot, but I have great implied odds with all those callers. Furthermore, your reasons for not thinking the kings are clean sound overly paranoid and unconvincing.

Scott

[Nate tha' Great]

Raise preflop.

[Scotch78]

I did consider raising pre-flop both times and wasn't quite sure if it was better than limping, but I'm more concerned what you think about the rest of the hands.

Scott

[Nate tha' Great]

[ QUOTE ]
I did consider raising pre-flop both times and wasn't quite sure if it was better than limping, but I'm more concerned what you think about the rest of the hands.

Scott

[/ QUOTE ]

Hand 1 would be easier to play if you'd raised preflop. /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

You're certainly in a raise/fold situation on the flop. If the MP player is on the tight side, there's definitely an argument for dumping it. But the fact that SB is shortstacked, that you did not define your hand preflop, and that you have a backdoor flush draw, probably argue for the 3-bet.

I think calling the turn is the right play. His most likely hands are a K with a better kicker, QJ, or perhaps an overplayed AT. Raising costs you money against a better king, and doesn't make you anything against QJ assuming that he's willing to bluff the river. I also think that there is a higher-than-usual chance that he folds something like AT if you raise the turn, since the presence of the (nearly) all-in player protects him against a bluff, especially when there is no sidepot to speak of. However, I might consider raising the river if a blank falls.

I think the flop call in Hand 2 is probably incorrect, but not by much. The turn/river are obvious.