AKo - Late Stages of Tournament

[MarkD]

We are down to around 20 people from 850ish starting out. I am 4 in chips when this hand comes up. My opponent's play had seemed weird to me up to this point. When I say that I mean, in my very limited tourney experience, his pre-flop play seemed wonky. He got short stacked and started moving in everytime he played - which I think was good. He built his stack up to a reasonable level but still kept pushing it in - at this point I thought it was very excessive. He then switched gears and started min-raising. There was little post-flop play at the table I was at so I had no way to judge his game.

Blinds are 10K/20K with a 1k ante. I'm completely confused on this hand and know for a fact I misplayed it. But I don't know how to assess where I made the biggest mistakes or how the hand should have been played.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t20000 (7 handed)

saw flop|<font color="C00000">saw showdown</font>

BB (t415070)
UTG (t205789)
MP1 (t410175)
MP2 (t146236)
Hero (t292528)
Button (t172522)
SB (t265404)

Preflop: Hero is CO with K/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif.
<font color="666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises to t60000</font>, <font color="666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="CC3333">SB raises to t100000</font>, <font color="666666">1 fold</font>, Hero calls t40000.

Flop: (t205000) J/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 3/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
SB checks, Hero checks.

Turn: (t205000) 7/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">SB bets t60000</font>, Hero calls t60000.

River: (t325000) 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">SB bets t80000</font>, Hero folds.

Final Pot: t405000
<font color="green">Main Pot: t325000 (t325000), won by SB.</font>
<font color="green">Pot 2: t80000 (t80000), returned to SB.</font>

Results in white below: <font color="white">
SB doesn't show.
Outcome: SB wins t405000. </font>

The river bet screamed, "Call me!" So I folded.

[Masquerade]

If you are going to fold to a river bet if a blank comes, as you did, then calling a 60,000 bet on the turn to try and win a 260,000 pot doesnt seem such a good idea as you only have 6 outs. Yes if you hit you might win a little more, assuming he doesnt have KK or AA (or JJ!), but the pot odds still dont justify it.

Therefore I think you should have envisaged what you would do if a blank came, and he made a similar sized bet. If the answer was fold then you only have two choices on the turn: lay it down, or re-raise allin. As there's a distinct possibility he has you beat with JJ-AA, which he is certainly not going to laydown, the re-raise doesnt seem so good.

[Lloyd]

I definitely think that your play on the turn is either fold or re-raise all-in. Re-raising is probably not the right move as you've got a nice stack and there's no sense tossing it away on a bluff. He could easily have an overpair or even AJ - I've seen lots of people re-raise with that pre-flop.

I would have probably bet the flop to see where I stood. It's not a scary board so a bet other than pot-sized is not a sign of weakness. If he calls then I'm putting him on a better hand than mine and would check fold.

[Paragon]

I agree that the river play does seem like a "call me!" bet. I've often discovered when my opponent's play doesn't seem to make sense in a hand it's because the flop nailed him perfectly and he is slow playing it awkwardly.

AJ seems like a hand that the villain would bet out the flop strongly... Same with overpair afraid of an ace falling. It's because of this I almost suspect he has AA or hit a set of jacks (despite the smaller probability of such a thing) and was hoping you would bluff the pot on the flop so he could check raise. But after your check and a blank showing up he decides to just start the value betting.

I could be way off of course. He might have a pocket pair like TT and was hesitant on the flop... I can't imagine you're ahead in the hand though. I always hate playing AK when someone else put in the last raise pre flop. I fold the turn.

[ZeeJustin]

Go all-in over his minreraise. You'll be surprised how often he folds in that spot.

[MLG]

excellent point

[Sam T.]

I agree that you should to play back at the min-raise. If you've been stealing (which seems likely given that you're still playing at this point), he may be trying a re-steal with mediocre cards. You are quite possibly ahead at this point, and an all-in would possibly chase out pockets below jacks.

Once the flop misses you, you are in trouble. You can bet it, but given the size of the pot, you'd be pretty close to committed as soon as you reached for your chips. As Sklansky says, don't bet if a re-raise will make you feel like throwing up. (God, that's a great line.)

[Boris]

[ QUOTE ]
Go all-in over his minreraise. You'll be surprised how often he folds in that spot.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think the SB will fold very often. I agree though a re-raise is in order. I would be happy to get my money in with AK at this point in the tournament.

[MarkD]

[ QUOTE ]
As Sklansky says, don't bet if a re-raise will make you feel like throwing up. (God, that's a great line.)


[/ QUOTE ]

That's exactly why I didn't bet the flop. That line popped into my head and it seemed fitting to this scenario.

[MarkD]

[ QUOTE ]
Go all-in over his minreraise. You'll be surprised how often he folds in that spot.

[/ QUOTE ]

I debated this during the hand and the main reason I didn't (the only reason in fact) was that at this stage in the tournament Sklansky states that I shouldn't be risking my entire stack on coin flip situations since I can move up in the money easily.

Maybe I misunderstand Sklansky. I know I misunderstood this hand as it played out - I feel like I screwed up every street, except the river.

Is there anything you can elaborate on for moving in here? (I'm just trying to fix my thought process as far as tournaments go. I'm very inexperienced in tournies, especially late like this with a sizeable stack.)

[MarkD]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't think the SB will fold very often. I agree though a re-raise is in order.

[/ QUOTE ]

I also think that I should have moved in with AK here. His min-reraise does not seem like AA or KK.

[ QUOTE ]
I would be happy to get my money in with AK at this point in the tournament.

[/ QUOTE ]
I'm not used to playing at this stage of a tourney with a stack like that. I didn't think moving in with AK against a probable pocket pair was a great move here. I think I undervalued AK at this stage of the tourny.

[Vince Lepore]

It's important to know what you will do if reraised especially if you are concerned with moving up the pay ladder. It wasn't his river bet that screamed call me it was his reraise preflop. Some would term it a "milk raise". He only doubled your raise so unless he was a complete idiot he expected you to call. If I am not sure about this player given your chip position I fold preflop. Otherwise, my second choice is to move-in with calling a close third. I don't like your call on the turn. You could make your hand and lose. I think folding the turn is best once you call his reraise.

Vince

[dolohov]

I'd re-raise all-in preflop.

If for some reason you don't want to do that in order to move up in the money (depends on your risk tolerance and need for the $$$), I think you have to play AK like a drawing hand and fold when he bets and you haven't hit.

[MarkD]

[ QUOTE ]
(depends on your risk tolerance and need for the $$$)

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, both of these things seem unimportant to me. I look at tournament decisions the same as I do for ring game decisions: How do I maximize my EV? At this stage of a tournament I am looking to maximize my EV within the tournament - this was an important hand in that regard, and I screwed it up.

[MarkD]

[ QUOTE ]
It's important to know what you will do if reraised especially if you are concerned with moving up the pay ladder. It wasn't his river bet that screamed call me it was his reraise preflop. Some would term it a "milk raise". He only doubled your raise so unless he was a complete idiot he expected you to call. If I am not sure about this player given your chip position I fold preflop. Otherwise, my second choice is to move-in with calling a close third. I don't like your call on the turn. You could make your hand and lose. I think folding the turn is best once you call his reraise.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think this is excellent advice and really appreciate it. It illustrates how I need to get limit ring game strategy out of my head when I am in tournmanet mode (I really do try). To me, the above is completely "weak tight", and of course that desciption has a negative connotation. Yet, for this situation it feels like fantastic advice.

To be fair, I considered all three of my options pre-flop. His stack size, my stack size, his min-reraise, and a myriad of other considerations had me completely confused.

[ QUOTE ]
t's important to know what you will do if reraised

[/ QUOTE ]

This seems easier to say than to do in the above situation, at least for me, at this point.

[miu04]

I would fold after the turn in such a situation. Late in the tournament with a healthy stack...there's absolutely NO need to be risking such a call. By calling for the river, you are saying "At BEST situation, the hand will be a coinflip...at BEST" He is representing at LEAST a pair of jacks, though my bet is he has JJ. When the flop hit I think he wanted to check raise you, but you didnt bet. After the turn was insignifigant, he then wanted to get money out of this hand, hence the large bet. I think your call was a mistake and would fold after the turn.

[sdplayerb]

well if you bet the flop you have to just pushin anyway, so that wouldn't need to be worried about.
and i would have pushed in preflop.

[Steve Chase]

I won't fold preflop when min-raised.
So call the min-raise is fine to me.
I want to see the flops.

If I am in an aggressive mode, I may bet after the flop when he checked to see if he has a made hand or not.

If I am in a tight mode, I will check after the flop and fold after he bets after the turn.

[Vince Lepore]

Poker Stars runs heads up NLH tournaments. These are excellant training grounds for limit players transitioning to NLH. Next best are single table sit n' go's. I prefer the single tables on party poker.

Vince

[Vince Lepore]

[ QUOTE ]
Actually, both of these things seem unimportant to me. I look at tournament decisions the same as I do for ring game decisions: How do I maximize my EV?

[/ QUOTE ]

If you are playing to win the tournament this is the correct way of looking at tournament situations. EV to me is how much real dinero The play will yield. Your play is more likely to win a tournament than mine but I might just have a higher EV ($).

Vince

[MarkD]

[ QUOTE ]
If you are playing to win the tournament this is the correct way of looking at tournament situations. EV to me is how much real dinero The play will yield. Your play is more likely to win a tournament than mine but I might just have a higher EV ($).


[/ QUOTE ]

Your definition of EV is what I meant in my original statement and why I think I played this hand wrong and why I agreed with your advice.

[Vince Lepore]

Good Lcuk! Don't worry, be happy. You, in my opinion, have the right attitude to succeed at tounament poker if you so choose.

Vince