One of the greatest (stupid) fold of DRAW POKER

Home Draw poker table, 4 players, with 32 cards deck (burning out 2s,3s,4s,5s and 6s). Also called "Spaghetti poker".


The structure is no limit with a $2000 buy-in, dealer puts a "blind" of $25, if everyone pass (no opening bets) next dealer puts another $25 and so on (max 4 bets). Player is obliged to open the amount of the pot (no less no more) and then the action is no-limit.


2 medium players, one player is very loose and high stacked (the usual donator).


I'm the dealer ($5500, but I have bought 2 stack of $2000 so i'm winning just $1500), the loose player (he has a huge stack of over $12.000) posts a blind of $50. First player calls $50 (he cannot raise more now), one fold, I'm dealt K-K-K-K-10; i call. No doubt the loose player (is in the blind and he can raise) raise $250 more, the first player folds, I smoothly call him trying to trap him.


Draw: I draw one card because if I stay pat and if he's on a draw or trips or whatever no pat hand, I cannot win enough money after the draw. I pray he stay pat but He draw one card. Now I'm fearing trips of aces as he ALWAYS hit one card when dealt trips of aces (I ve been playing with him 10 hours dayly for 6 months). After the draw (I don't catch the sospirate ace just to feel me better) I bet $500 and immediately (we have a immediate-raise rule otherwise you have to call or to fold) he put all his stack all-in. Now I have the biggest dilemma of my poker career. He surely has a hand (i have tells on this) but what hand?

After 10 minutes of thinking I folded because from a winning of $1500 before the hand I can lose my 2 stack for a $4000 amount (ten minutes to the end of the game!). I showed my quads and he proudly showed me a full house of tens! Sigh. What a bad fold!. I reported this hand to all my poker friends and they told me I have been a foolish idiot. All players I know sayed I have to abandon poker after that stupid fold and now I enlarge that feeling to other continents, :-)


Is there in this forum just one player who would have folded that hand? I don't think so.


Last but not least, I have to add that in those times (but also in present...) I couldn't afford huge stack games as I hadn't enough money to play in. I was in that table only because that loose player gave me the bankroll in previous games and was a large donator knowing nothing about poker.


Marco

Hi Marco, I play the same game at my club in town, although very different stakes. $1 ante, $5 bets before the draw, and half pot after. Some times we play half pot before, and full pot after. I assume you have taken into account that with the short deck it is now about 2.6 times harder to get a flush than a full, so a flush now beats full. If not then you have some pretty bad rules.


Anyway, thats an awful fold. Also a pretty bad bet by him except against you as i know that tens full doesn't win a lot in these games. If i get reraised after the draw with tens full i would almost routinely dump it, except against one player that sounds very similar to your opponent in this hand.


Interestingly i would much rather have quad Ts or Js than Ks, but i'm not ususally picky when it comes to quads. Being so short on cards, almost 1/4 of flushes are straight flushes, so if i have quad Js or Ts i don't have to worry about that. And i don't ever worry about higher quads. I also am not afraid of greenmonsters under my bed, because they are almost as uncommmon.


In your situation i would call, and curse that i didn't have this guy covered. You played slow to trap him, he improved to a hand that you can beat as planned, and you chickened out.


Really if you can't call for all your money with Quad Kings, out of fear that a loose player (who would probably move in with a straight) has quad Aces, then nolimit just cannot be your game. I'm sorry but it's the truth, either get a brain or get some balls if you want to keep playing for these stakes, as you shouldn't be thinking about how much you can lose, you should be thinking about how much you can win.

Yep, you are perfectly right. But let's suppose after the draw I bet 500, he raise 1000 more now I'm willing to "jeopardize" my entire stack putting me all-in. See you? I made a bad decision as I evaluated the things in a wrong fashion. I know that that player tried to catch me a lot of money in just ONE hand and so I feared him; if he just raise a smaller amount, I would have reraised all my chips. It's not the results but the way he moved at the pot.


Ah, damned my poker mind!

However, thanks for all your answers (even previous ones) I appreciate all them very much, mr Peterson.


Marco

Sorry Marco, you don't get off that easily....


If I EVER have to think more than a second, in no-limit (or ANY type of betting), whether to put all my money in with quads... i'd give up poker forever (at LEAST no-limit as a minimum).


As Mr Peterson said- you got exactly what you wanted, then you bailed.


You need to seriously think about the following two things, then decide what poker limit you can play in:

a) If you're not willing to risk going broke on quads, then NO poker game (limit or non) is safe enough for you... pick up another game.


b) If you're playing with scared money, you've halfway lost already. It doesn't become money until AFTER the game is over. Make the smart, percentage decisions and learn to accept the swings.

Hello, EasyE,

I know an Omaha High player who plays pot-limit .


He checked quad 6's on the flop.

His opponent bet the pot. The flop was Q 6 6.

He smooth called. The turn :Q 6 6 Q.

His opponent bet the pot. He folded his quad 6's.

His opponent had quad Q's.

The payer who folded his quads was a 15000.00 winner for that session.


Sitting Bull

Sitting Bull.


Firstly Omaha is a very different game to draw, and it is easy to put an opponent on a hand. Many players would lay down quad 6s, in that spot against a player they know to be tight in Omaha, because what else can he have? If a rock bets the flop there, and you have all the 6s, then he has Queens, simple as that.


In draw, you can put opponents on hands, but I could never put a player on hand that allowed me to lay down Quads of any description, let alone Kings. And I very severely doubt you have ever met a good draw player that would either.

I lost 2 times with kings quads, once vs aces quads and another session vs a straight flush (draw poker with 32 cards has very huge hands)


Marco

That play in Omaha is understandable. Folding quad Kings in draw is bizzarre. I have never played with that 32-card deck and I know that it leads to monster hands but I can't see that fold.


We play pot-limit draw (regular deck, hi and hi-lo alternating) about once a month (we skip the holiday season) and I don't think I have had but two sets of quads in all the years I have played and never saw anyone lose, at draw with no wild cards, with quads. As I think about it, that laydown in the Omaha game seems more and more reasonable. I won't call it 'obvious' because that would be denegrating a fine play but it seems right. The original poster's fold seems wierd.


Jeff Ruebens writes about it being right to fold some really unbelievably good hand when Marvin the Accountant, the tightest player on Earth makes some enormouse raise but that isn't the situation here.


--

Will in New Haven

Ok so you've lost with them before. But how many times have you won? And were you playing loose ATM befoer when you lost? Did they stand pat or draw before?


It's tough to draw one card and beat quad Kings. Oh, and poker is one long session, not a day to day thing. If you lose $4K 2% of the time you have a bad beat story. But the rest of the time, you have gone from a $1500 winner to a $7K winnner.

Draw Poker, Holdem, Omaha and Stud are all too good games for you. Your playing those high stakes and you fold four of a kind. Its not everyday you get four of a kind and do you know the odds of having four aces and four kings in one hand? Not only that but he also drew one card, i dont care whether you had tells or anything. I WOULD CALL ANYDAY

Dear MIchael,

yuo NEVER played DRAW POKER with 32 cards, I repeat 32 cards.

I looked at minimum 5-6 ACes quads vs straight flushes and the money in those games are very deep. (In a situation one fellow lost with queens qu

I had the third best hand, 3rd not 2nd, and I was 10 minutes before the finish. I was winning $1500, why to risk losing $5500?


OK, I played bad but before criticizing you have to play a 32 cards draw game with a fair buy-in. /images/smile.gif


Marco

Sorry, connection problems. I was talking that a a fellow with Queens quads lost $9000 vs a player who drew 3 cards hitting (LOL...) a straight flush.... and these super bad beats happened many many times... it's like the bad beat jackpot in some hold'em games (RARE BUT HAPPENS...)


Marco