Stud: The best hand I've ever folded

I've said a few times in other posts that I've never folded a full-house in stud. I thought it may be interesting to post the best hand I've ever folded on the river. The hand is from early last summer when I first started playing stud. Since my memory isn't perfect, I'll have to "creatively" fill in the gaps. All the important details are correct.


It's 1-5 stud at Mandalay Bay.


The third street boards are:


(x,x) 2s (Drew)

(x,x) Td

(Ah,Kh) 9h (ME)

(x,x) 7c

(x,x) Qd

(x,x) Ac

(x,x) 3d (Aggie)

(x,x) Ts


For simplicity, I've given names to the two key players in this hand. Drew brings it in for $1. The Td folds. I call with a super-live three-flush. The 7c folds. The Qd calls. The Ac calls. The 3d calls. The Ts folds. Five players see fourth street. The pot is $5.


In an ante game, my hand is almost certainly worth a raise.


The fourth street boards are:


(x,x) 2s,Ks (Drew)

(Ah,Kh) 9h,Qh (ME)

(x,x) Qd,7s

(x,x) Ac,4c

(x,x) 3d,8h (Aggie)


The Qh was probably the best card I could hope for. The Ac checks. Aggie bets $3. I was surprised to see him bet since he had the lowest doorcard among those who voluntarily entered the pot. Aggie is a tourist and I know nothing about him. Drew calls. Another surprise since he was the low-card. Drew is somebody I've seen play before. He's fairly good. Could he have a spade draw? Or a pair of 2s with a good kicker? I call (I never raised or bet with draws when I started. I've learned better since then). The Qd folds. The Ac folds. Three players see fifth street. The pot is $14


The fifth street boards are:


(x,x) 2s,Ks,3h (Drew)

(Ah,Kh) 9h,Qh,4d (ME)

(x,x) 3d,8h,8c (Aggie)


Aggie bets $5 with an open pair of 8s. Drew calls. I call. When I started playing, I used to be a bit nervous (paranoid?) about playing flush and straight draws when somebody makes an open pair. I always feared ending up against a full-house. The pot is $29


The sixth street boards are:


(x,x) 2s,Ks,3h,5s (Drew)

(Ah,Kh) 9h,Qh,4d,6c (ME)

(x,x) 3d,8h,8c,Jc (Aggie)


Aggie bets $5 again. Drew calls. Drew has three spades on his board and may be drawing to a flush with a pair. That doesn't bother me because my flush is going to be bigger- if I make it. Is there anything more annoying in stud than having a four-flush on fourth street and not making a hand? I call. The pot is $44.


It's important to note that Aggie has to see the three spades on Drew's board and the two hearts I had on 3rd and 4th street. What's he thinking about the two of us calling his $5 bets?


The seventh street boards are:


(x,x) 2s,Ks,3h,5s (x) (Drew)

(Ah,Kh) 9h,Qh,4d,6c (7h) (ME)

(x,x) 3d,8h,8c,Jc (x) (Aggie)


Well, I made it. I've got a beautiful AKQ-high flush. Aggie bets $3. Just $3- not $5.


This sent of sirens in my head. At this time, I had been "acting weak" on the river with my full houses when I thought I was up against draws. I would bet $2 or $3 on my full house hoping to get raised by a flush or draw (They would not call any bet if they missed). Of course, I would then re-raise another $5.


So Aggie bets $3. Drew raises to $8. I know I've got Drew beat but I feel that Aggie is using "my" play. I had intented to raise if I made my hand. Instead, I call the $8.


Aggie raises to $13. Drew calls.


The pot is $78. It costs me $5 to call.


I fold.

What a terrible fold! I'm getting great odds here. My hand only needs to be good once in every fifteen times I encounter this situation to make calling correct. Why the hell am I drawing to a flush if I'm going to fold it on the river? If somebody else posted this hand, I would have blasted him for folding.


Then again, you've got to trust your reads.


Drew had an AKQ52-flush. Wow! I just barely had him beat with my AKQ97- flush. I never expected that.


Aggie had 8s full of 3s and took the pot. He probably had the full house on fifth street.


I think if Aggie had bet $5 on the river, I would have made it $15 after Drew, presumably, made it $10.

"Aggie" should have used the cash to legally change to a male name. My visual was ruined when you referred to Aggie as "he".


This jogs my memory about my best hold'em laydown...I'll go post it in small stakes. /images/wink.gif


Nice laydown. I will use this opportunity to again encourage you to step up. Your hand reading skills are way above most players you will see in 6-12, 8-16 and 10-20. This of course goes for both hold'em and stud.

Dynasty,


This hand kind of reminds me of one of mine from a few weeks ago when I laid down ( on the river ) a made K high straight ( in the first 5 cards ).

Pot was $300 in a 5-10 game. Sure enough it was a good lay-down that saved me an additional $20.


Keep up the good reading. Good reads and tough lay downs are what separate the average players from the good/great ones.


Later,


CJ

Reno - I make a 8 high str8 on 5th.


K bets

LL pro raises with 9JQ.

I fold (he was playing so tight he had either made str8 or a set (he showed the str8)

Hello,Dynasty,

Good fold! Never be too hard on yourself---remember you just started playing.

About 3 years ago, I remembered folding a medium full-house on 6th Str. I thought my opponent had a higher full-house.

Guess what! He had a full-house,alright,but mine was higher!

I cried all the way home that day!(only joking} Sitting Bull

Hello,Clarkmeister,

There is probably a positive correlation between skill and limit:the higher the limits,the more skillful the field. However, the co-efficient of correlation might not be large. Sitting Bull

Hello,CJ,

You are on the button!

One reason I'm not earning 2000.00-3000.00/yr more is that I do not lay down enough of these tough folds.


Sitting Bull

You probably should have called in that situation, as you note. However for this and your previous posts, it's clear you are adept at "playing the players" which is what good poker is all about. Of course, you have to have the odds knowledge, memory of what's out, hand-reading fundamentals down. And these always need work. But I think the ability to read the players, whether it's to save a bet, make a bet, bluff, set-up a play or whatever is ultimately what makes good players. It's also what makes the game fun -- and basically is why many poker players don't think of themselves primarily as gamblers.

True.....


I have met Dynasty out here in Vegas, and I am trying to get him to listen to the advice in Feeny's book which is, move up as soon as you are able. He has expressed a desire to play higher and based on conversations with him, I don't feel he is pushing himself fast enough.


I think it is particularly dangerous to get real "comfortable" with the small blind LL holdem and no ante stud because those conditions do not exist at higher limits. It took me a while to adjust from the little blind hold'em games to full blinds, and I am trying to encourage him to avoid that trap by making the move sooner than I did.