Protecting your hand, ones and fore all!!!!

[Omaha8Player]

Hi have read the SSH chapter about Protecting your hand but I still don’t fully understand it. I mean most time you are not able to protect your hand any good, like when you are on the button whit JJ and raise whit a lot of limpers making 12sb on a ragged flop whit no over cards. It is checked to you. If you bet that will give people 13-1 odds to call you and if you check to bet the turn you give them infinite odds.
There are a lot more examples where you yeast can’t protect your hand any good and other examples where you don’t have to protect your hand.
Can someone please fill up this thread whit example hands in booth these categories and add comments to them so the protecting your hand concept becomes more clear.

[MoreWineII]

Using your example of JJ on the button, after limpers, you really can't do much to protect your hand. At that point, you are raising for value. With the added little bonus of maybe losing one or both of the blinds.

Protecting your hand, imo, means confronting players with two or more bets cold.

For example, say four people have limped, you raise preflop with your JJ, they all call. The flop comes 569r. Checked to CO, who bets, you raise. You've now confronted most of the field with two bets cold and made it tough for anybody without a premium hand to call. At this point the pot is big so you don't care if long-shots start folding.

Say A7s folds to the raise, which he probably would. Everyone else folds too except the CO who calls. The turn is an 8, the river is a 2, CO shows TT, and you win the pot. You've just protected your hand. A7s might have called for one bet with his gut-shot and backdoor flush draws.

You can't protect your hand all the time, but the times when you can are critical, imo.

I don't know if you play live much, but think of all the times where you've raised preflop and won a pot. Then you hear grumbling from across the table, "I would have one that pot had I stayed..."

Anyway, this is just me rambling, but hopefully there are some coherent thoughts in there.

[eh923]

Re-read the material until it's clear. It takes a few times to sink in, but it's worth the effort.

Your JJ example sounds awfully similar to the TT hand from the "Two Overpair" section (although I don't have the book handy, so maybe position is different). There, you should consider the edge you have on the flop, compared to how it will change (either increasing or decreasing) based on the turn card.

[jordanx]

In your example with the Jacks, you likely have the best hand and should be betting for value, in addition, someone who completely missed might fold.

A lot of the time, you will protect your hand on the flop by raising when someone to your right bets and you are not last to act.

Sometimes, you will protect your hand with a bet, however, like you suspect, in large, multi-way pots, one bet will not protect your hand.

Occasionally, you will protect your hand with a check-raise especially if you are in early position against a LAG in late position and other players in the middle.

If you are in late position and someone in early position bets and a lot of players call in the middle and the board is scary, you are not protecting your hand by raising, you might consider calling and raising the turn if it is a rag.

[jordanx]

Here is a classic example that happens relatively often:

You are in early position with A /images/graemlins/spade.gif Q /images/graemlins/diamond.gif and you raise pre-flop. two players in middle position, the SB and BB call.

Flop comes J /images/graemlins/spade.gif 6 /images/graemlins/spade.gif 5 /images/graemlins/heart.gif

The SB checks and the BB bets, you should raise and force the SB and 2 middle position players to cold call 2 bets.

Then, you could take the free card unimproved on the turn or bet if you catch an A or Q.

[private joker]

[ QUOTE ]
In your example with the Jacks, you might consider a check-raise if you suspect someone behind you will bet and you may be able to make one or two players cold call two bets.

[/ QUOTE ]

In his example with the Jacks, he's on the button so there *is* nobody behind him.

[jordanx]

okay, didn't see that, fixed post, thanks.

[Omaha8Player]

Thanks all. Anyone that have an example of a hand that don’t need protection (whiteout being like a full house or quads)?

[sthief09]

you have AA or AK and 4 people see the flop for 2 bets. the flop comes K22r. the player to your right bets.

[House-Lion]

Not protecting your hand when it is not a full house or quads:

That would fall into the category of slow-play:
For a slow-play to be correct HEPFAP states
1 your hand must be very strong
2 You probably will chase everyone out by getting but u have a good chance of winning a big pot if you check
3 The free card that you are giveing has good possibilies of making secon-best hands (how the heck do you know what the next card will be? /images/graemlins/wink.gif )
4 The free card has little chance of making a better hand for someone or even giving him a draw to a better hand with sufficient odds to justify a call
5 The pot must yet not be very large

If few see the flop and you have a set on a board with no draws (no 2-flushes, no str-draws) then it might be right to go for a slow-play.

Also in some heads-up-situation is it often beneficial to let a potential bluffer do the betting for you and you raise him on the river.


Remember that not protecting your hand may casue someone to draw out on you and if someone else is slow-playing a worse hand you have costed yourself a lot of money.