Low limit Omaha-8 starting hands/strategy Comments

Comments please, include your opinion on how position affects your thinking: (My thoughts below)


1. 234K no suits


2. AA23 single suit to an Ace


3. 23JJ no suits


4. A356 56 suited


5. A456 no suits


6. KK97 with one King suited


My thoughts:


1. Raise early, to fold A3's. If many callers, also call. If facing a raise and then many folds, I fold too as there is likely at least one Ace out and I may be drawing slim. But an iffy hand at best.


2. Early just Smooth call. This hand wants many callers, let them get a piece of the flop. Only if on the cut off or button would I raise or re-raise. You will scoop a big pot often with this and want to get as many customers as possible.


3. I muck this unless it is 6 or 7 way unraised, or if I can get in from the small blind for half a bet. Otherwise its gone.


4. This is not as good as it looks. The 6 has some value, as it may allow you to drive the betting, but I don't raise with this hand unless I am on a steal (rare in low limit.) This hand flops a low draw with a deuce less the 15% of the time, and the high outlook is poor.


5. If you can squeeze a dollar out of this hand you can have my share too. Hands like these look good but are crap. Even with a the Ace suited it is marginal.


6. Badger says this can be profitable on the button, in certain situations, but not for me. Change the 7 to a Jack and this is a call.


A9

A9suited,


I haven’t scrolled down so I’ll comment without looking at your analysis. I’m assuming a loose game.


1. 234K no suits – Play for half a bet in the small blind or call a full bet in the big blind against a weak field. Suited to the king call on the button against several typical limpers.


2. AA23 single suit to an Ace – Always raise in back or after a couple limpers but it can be played both ways UTG. If you limp UTG then limp reraise if possible. Also raise out of the blinds.


3. 23JJ no suits – Only play this hand for half a bet or better in the small blind. Otherwise muck.


4. A356 56 suited – Play for the discount in the blinds or on the button against weak limpers


5. A456 no suits – Play for a discount in the blinds. This hand is marginal on the button after weak limpers. (This would be a blind attacking hand first in late at higher limits).


6. KK97 with one King suited – Only play for free or a big discount in the blinds.


Regards,


Rick

Don't you think that 1 and 4 are both playable in late position (as opposed to just the button) against weak players since they have some scoop potential (and I'm talking about straight potential not the 56s BS)?

Kris

I don't play lots of Omaha, so I'm not saying "I'm right". I was just wondering if what I mentioned above is too loose.

kris

Kris,


I probably should have said the button or late position behind many limpers where you are pretty sure you will not be raised.


Regards,


Rick

A9suited - On first consideration, 234K seems like a hand which might scoop with a wheel or a low straight. In that case, you want to see an ace plus another low card or two on the flop.


When holding 234K, roughly one out of eight flops (2176/17296) has an ace and also gives you either the nut low or a decent draw for the nut low - plus a chance at scooping with a low straight.


More often (3232/17296) you will flop either the third nut low or a draw for the third nut low. Roughly a fourth (864) of these third nut low and third nut low draw flops leave you with the very real danger of being double counterfeited by the time you reach the river. In addition, in a loose nine player game you’ll have to share the low with at least one opponent roughly one time out of three.


Now let’s consider high. Here you have a hand with only three cards working together to make a straight and with no chance of a flush. If you do make a low straight, you will often be beaten by a better one. If you do make a full house, you will often be beaten by a better one.


You want an ace on the board, but only if you can use it. Otherwise you do not want an ace on the board. An ace you can’t use on the board is death to this hand.


In some low limit games many of your opponents will be concentrating on playing low hands. In these games two pair, or even a bluff on the end after low fails to materialize will often take the whole pot. The king is a good card to hold in these situations, so long as you can make two pair with a king but no ace on the board. Thus, although the hand looks at first like a low hand which needs an ace on the flop to justify continuing after the flop, against certain groups of opponents, it has about as much value for high as it does for low - and against these opponents you do not necessarily want to see an ace on the flop.


Now on to the question of whether to dump the hand to a pre-flop raise. IMHO, it depends on your opponents. You start out thinking the hand is playable if the deck is enriched in aces. In that case, you reason, if your opponents tend to only raise before the flop if holding an ace, then the part of the deck left from which to make a board may not be enriched in aces.


But wait a minute! Against opponents who tend to raise, pre-flop, only if they have an ace, and who tend to draw to low hands but fold to a bet on the river when they miss, a pre-flop raise may indicate the deck is depleted in aces but enriched in kings, thus often creating a favorable situation for you.


Thus there seems no definitive answer to the question of how to handle 234K. What you should do depends, as almost always, on your opponents. If you have them figured out and play accordingly, I think you generally win. (That’s easy to say, but very difficult to do).


234K is not a very good Omaha-8 hand because you usually will end up not making the nuts with it. Yet if you can exploit it against your opponents, it becomes a playable hand. How you go about exploiting the hand depends on your opponents and also on your own skill as a poker player.


As to your thoughts about the hand:


I don't think raising early to fold A3's will accomplish that purpose. Although you may be able to turn a pre-flop raise to your advantage later in the hand against some groups of opponents, against most groups of opponents you’d be throwing your money away.


When eight opponents are also dealt hands, 16 cards are left in the pack from which to create a 3-card flop and a 5-card board. Whether or not there is a pre-flop raise, you should figure that more than one of your opponents probably has an ace here.


Just my opinion.


Buzz

I see Rick, Goat, and Buzz have already checked in with their views, so I am looking forward to seeing how my comments stack up these esteemed posters. I'm not going to peek until after I post. Honest.


1. I muck this hand unless on the button or maybe the cutoff seat with no raise. As I see it, the hands that call your raise here from an early seat are the ones that will have you dominated. I want to get in cheap, hope to flop an Ace, and go from there. If I do flop an Ace, my 234 holding give be backup protection. In my 4-8 games, the A-3 hands all call raises, so raising with this to drive them out is hopeless.


2. It is certainly game sensitive, but I raise with this hand in my games from any and all seats. I understand your point about trying for a limp re-raise from an early seat, but you probably play with more rational O/8 players that I do. If they are going to call raises with something like 9875, and 235Q, then why not punish them by raising with quality?


3. Junk. I hate this type of hand. If I call hoping to flop an Ace for low, then I get easily counterfeited when a deuce or trey accompanies the Ace. If I try to flop a set of Jacks, I am vulnerable to over-sets. If I do make top set with the Jacks, I can never be nut high without the board pairing. There is no coordination between the cards. A real chip-burner.


4. I will call with this hand from an early seat, but not like it much. If it gets raised behind me, I am likely in trouble. I like it much better from a late position, but it is IMO not worthy of a raise. Steal raise??? In LL?? That's a good one! I MAY not need to flop a deuce in all cases, and I much prefer to be in late with the A3 hands to get a read on what's going on.


5.Very marginal. Doesn't look that much worse than Hand #4, but it is. Dump from up front, maybe call for 1 bet late and pray.


6. I agree that the 7 almost might as well be a deuce. For your 97 to be of any great value for high, there will be a low on board. You are basically trying for a set of Kings. My crew would think NOTHING of calling this from any position, but like Badger, I much prefer to be late. In my games, there are almost always at least 7 players seeing flops, and little pre-flop raising, so you could make an implied odds case for game speciific early calls, but I would only play this late and for one bet. The King suited is a trap. Adds very little for value, with these cards IMO. If my hand was something like KK23 and the King was suited, then I like it better in case the Ace of my suit flops and then I have scoop chances.


Now I peek.

Dunc,


For this type of post copy down his hands into the message box and then respond. Otherwise you need to open two windows to follow along.


Regards,


Rick

Sorry, Rick. You are as always (almost anyway) correct.


When I'm down in February, I'll buy you and E a drink as penance.


Dunc