3 hands; all best checked? [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

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VBM

11-02-2004, 12:08 PM

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (8 handed)

Preflop: Hero is SB with A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, Q/images/graemlins/club.gif.
UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, MP1 calls, MP2 folds, CO calls, Button folds, Hero raises, BB calls, MP1 calls, CO calls.

Flop: (8 SB) K/images/graemlins/heart.gif, J/images/graemlins/club.gif, 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif (4 players)
Hero bets, BB raises, MP1 folds, CO folds, Hero calls.

Turn: (6 BB) 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
Hero...?
************************************************** **********
Heads up on the river. Villain's representing he made something on the flop. TKTK? Kings up? Bet/check-call/check-fold...which is more +EV?

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (8 handed)

Preflop: Hero is BB with J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif.
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, CO folds, Button calls, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (5 SB) 4/images/graemlins/club.gif, 8/images/graemlins/club.gif, J/images/graemlins/club.gif (5 players)
SB checks, Hero...?
************************************************** **********
1st to act, small pot. Is this one of the instances where you want villains to pay for cards or you voluntarily forsake SB's now for BB's down the road?

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (9 handed)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif, T/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, CO folds, Button folds, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (4 SB) 4/images/graemlins/club.gif, 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (4 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, UTG calls, UTG+1 raises, SB folds, Hero calls, UTG calls.

Turn: (5 BB) T/images/graemlins/spade.gif (3 players)
Hero bets, UTG calls, UTG+1 folds.

River: (7 BB) 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
Hero...?
************************************************** **********
Bet or risk a bet trying to check-raise?

davelin

11-02-2004, 12:14 PM

Hand 1 - Why did you bet the flop?
Hand 2 - Bet, no question.
Hand 3 - Please bet

Entity

11-02-2004, 12:14 PM

Check/fold hand #1; bet your flush draw for value in hand #2; bet and hope to be raised so you can 3-bet in hand #3.

Rob

Slick Al

11-02-2004, 12:25 PM

Ok, let's see:

Hand 1 - Check-Fold. you have at least 3 outs, and more likely 4, possibly 7 (Aces). If only your straight outs are clean (against AK or more likely two pair), you would need 4/46 - 1 in 12 to call. You're getting half that, this is a check/fold. Even if your Ace outs are clean, you still need 1 in 7 (which you just barely get) to make this call. While I think that either your ace or queen outs are likely good here (I put BB on Kx, QJ, or AJ), they're not both clean.

Hand 2 - bet, you really want to let these loose/passives call and keep calling. Get money in now, build the pot.

Hand 3 - bet, you've led into the raiser on the turn, I doubt he bets into you on the river, but he may call down with many hands.

Al

toby

11-02-2004, 12:31 PM

#1 Check-fold. No point in chasing a potentially no good ace.

#2 Bet, if he has a decent size club he may call to his detriment.

#3 Bet, you lead out on the turn and UTG didn't raise, also the 4 shouldn't have helped him, there is no reason why he would bet after the strength you have shown.

VBM

11-02-2004, 12:35 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 1 - Why did you bet the flop?

[/ QUOTE ]
for information. to see what cards were out there. maybe to isolate one or two opponents. seemed a lot of times at this table anyways, if no one made anything strong (like top pair), they were folding to any bet. Do you believe this was unsound?
plus, it was an early round, and bets are a little cheaper to make at this stage.

davelin

11-02-2004, 12:39 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Hand 1 - Why did you bet the flop?

[/ QUOTE ]
for information. to see what cards were out there. maybe to isolate one or two opponents. seemed a lot of times at this table anyways, if no one made anything strong (like top pair), they were folding to any bet. Do you believe this was unsound?
plus, it was an early round, and bets are a little cheaper to make at this stage.

[/ QUOTE ]

So what information did you gain on the flop? Why are you considering making the same move on the turn, to gain the same information again?

VBM

11-02-2004, 01:07 PM

[ QUOTE ]
So what information did you gain on the flop? Why are you considering making the same move on the turn, to gain the same information again?

[/ QUOTE ]

So at this stage, I thought this; he probably has Kx (since he was the BB, it cost him 1 bet to close the action; i'm not so sure he had a big card to go with it, but then raising the flop bet would've been a mighty bold move w/ K,rag...)
He could have KJ, in which case my only hope is a 10. He could also have JA which I didn't think about at the time and I really should have...

anyways, i get it that you hate the flop bet...and your reasoning is sound. point taken.

At the turn, you are right; calling is probably my least favorite option. So then it's; check-folding and check-calling.

check-folding; cut my losses, move on.
check-calling;
1. if i don't improve on the river, i fold.
2. if i spike an A or a Q, i check-call the river.
3. if i make a 10, i might be able to check-raise him for an extra bet or two.

seriously, thanks for looking over this! i appreciate you guys' perspectives. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

davelin

11-02-2004, 01:13 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
So what information did you gain on the flop? Why are you considering making the same move on the turn, to gain the same information again?

[/ QUOTE ]

So at this stage, I thought this; he probably has Kx (since he was the BB, it cost him 1 bet to close the action; i'm not so sure he had a big card to go with it, but then raising the flop bet would've been a mighty bold move w/ K,rag...)
He could have KJ, in which case my only hope is a 10. He could also have JA which I didn't think about at the time and I really should have...

anyways, i get it that you hate the flop bet...and your reasoning is sound. point taken.

At the turn, you are right; calling is probably my least favorite option. So then it's; check-folding and check-calling.

check-folding; cut my losses, move on.
check-calling;
1. if i don't improve on the river, i fold.
2. if i spike an A or a Q, i check-call the river.
3. if i make a 10, i might be able to check-raise him for an extra bet or two.

seriously, thanks for looking over this! i appreciate you guys' perspectives. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

We're hear to help. I don't know if the raise on the flop could possibly mean the Villain has AJ. Typical Party player doesn't raise with middle pair. You're probably behind a K.

VBM

11-02-2004, 02:37 PM

Thank you all again for your input and analyses.

results were as follows:

Hand 1:
Turn: (6 BB) 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets, Hero calls.

River: (8 BB) T/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
Hero bets, BB raises, Hero 3-bets, BB caps, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 16 BB
Main Pot: 16 BB, between BB and Hero. > Pot won by Hero (16 BB).

BB has Td Kc (two pair, kings and tens).
Hero has As Qc (straight, ace high).
Outcome: Hero wins 16 BB.

******************************

Flop: (5 SB) 4/images/graemlins/club.gif, 8/images/graemlins/club.gif, J/images/graemlins/club.gif (5 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, Button folds, SB folds.

Final Pot: 3 BB
Main Pot: 2.50 BB, won by Hero.
Pot 2: 0.50 BB, returned to Hero.

No showdown. Hero wins 3 BB.

******************************

River: (7 BB) 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
Hero bets, UTG folds.

******************************

As many of you vigorously advocated, I did bet the last two hands and I do feel a bit vindicated. Especially the last hand, it looks like villain would've checked down behind me and gotten a free peek at my hand and the reverse-engineered the way I played it for future reference...