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View Full Version : My Review Of CPL&NLH by Cloutier & McEvoy


Al Mirpuri
11-02-2004, 11:52 AM
My Background

I have played a few S&Gs and a few MT freerolls best results so far:

11/3057
18/500+
32/742

In the freerolls I finish in the money very regularly though the number I have played is not statistically; significant.

I have read TPFAP, Supersystem, Pot Limit And No Limit Poker by Ciaffone and Reuben and Poker Tournament Strategies by Sylvester Suzuki. I have also picked up some ideas from playing and peripheral reading. I have played no limit Hold'em.

My Review

The text is good for beginners/intermediates only. Even with my limited experience I found little that I had not figured out for myself. However, it does pass the "one good idea" text. It also helps to sharpen the details of my play.

Part of the problem with the text is that the more poker you have read and played the less you will get from this. Sklansky's TPFAP is also a flawed book. I read it first so got more from it. However, it is not that much better, if better at all, than this text. There is also some value in having read a text that much of the poker playing public has read. It is a good jumping off point for tournament newbies. If someone needed a first tournament book then this would be it.

I also think that TJ is right about 65 unsuited versus suited. He has usually been taken out of context. He said it was easier to let go off and this meant you would not be busted out drawing to a flush that would be second best to some other flush. For all the Sklanskites, both hands 65o & 65s are garbage.

deacsoft
11-02-2004, 01:43 PM
Call me curious, but which of the books you have mentioned in your post would you endorse as the best and, briefly, why? Thanks.

SossMan
11-02-2004, 02:49 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I also think that TJ is right about 65 unsuited versus suited. He has usually been taken out of context. He said it was easier to let go off and this meant you would not be busted out drawing to a flush that would be second best to some other flush.

[/ QUOTE ]

What I never understood about that is this:
Who is forcing you to draw to the flush. If you are not getting the right price, why can't you let it go? If he's saying that you shouldn't play 56s because you aren't good enough to know what the correct price to draw to your flush is, then that's a totally different argument, and I somewhat agree. But to say that 56o is better, is like saying 27o is better for the beginner than JTs because you can fold it preflop, and you might overplay the JTs postflop.

Al Mirpuri
11-02-2004, 03:16 PM
I think for Cloutier it was the equivalent of putting a loaded gun in a child's hand. Very few players can get away from hands once made. Say you flopped a flush are you gonna give it up at NL tourney play no you are going to be tricky as hell with it and then fidn that someone else was trickier iwth the nut flush. Which is all fine and well when you are busted out standing by the rail. Cloutier does not advocate playing either hand. He was making a distinction about the relative dangers of two poor hands, that he personally would not play, 65o and 65s.

Al Mirpuri
11-02-2004, 03:21 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Call me curious, but which of the books you have mentioned in your post would you endorse as the best and, briefly, why? Thanks.

[/ QUOTE ]

Supersystem is an alltime classic though only good now for the Seven Stud and No Limit HE advice. Supersystem II is out soon so it probably is not value to purchase Supersystem. However, it has many excellent chapters on games not played much anymore such as Lowball with the Joker and Jacks or Better with the Bug.

Tournament Poker For Advanced Players. Probably should be purchased for a general theoretical understanding of tournament poker.

Pot Limit And No Limit Poker is must reading for no limit and pot limit games. Covers a number of games as well.

The Suzuki book is poor and should not even be on Two Plus Two's in print list.

deacsoft
11-02-2004, 05:18 PM
Thanks for the reply. I own and have read Tournament Poker for Advanced Players and Super System. I also own Championship No-Limit & Pot-Limit Hold'em and am in the process of reading it. It's good to know I do not have to read the Suzuki book too. /images/graemlins/smile.gif