O8 trouble hand

The following hand occurred in a pot limit game and demonstrates a lot of the problems with calling with marginal hands in O8. I'm wondering if anyone would have played it differently. The game is PL with a single $5 blind on the button and a $2 ante.The game is very loose, before and after the flop. I have about $700, the button (B) has $1000, and a very loose, aggresssive player on my right (LA) has about $3000.


I'm in the cutoff with Ac-Qc-Js-9s. I call after 5 limpers and 6 of us see the flop. $55 in the pot.


Flop 10s- 8h- 5s


Not the perfect flop as if I go on I'm likely to only get half (assuming I win). Checked to LA who bets $20. This could literally be anything but is not a big hand. The players who checked are pretty straight forward and would have bet a hand if they had one. I call as does B. $115 in the pot.


Turn 7h


LA bets $65. This could still be anything from two pair, to a rough low. I call, B raises $300. LA calls immediately. B plays decently and his play assures the nuts one way and likely with a draw. I fold.


I'm not so concerned about the pre flop call (the game plays very loose with players calling down with 2nd nut flush and chasing lows) as I am about what my best option on the flop and turn. I'm new to Omaha and this hand didn't feel right to me. How would you have played it after the flop? Results below if interested.

The river brought the 8s pairing the board and completing the flush. Both players checked. They both turned over J-9 for the straight (B had picked up the heart draw on the turn and also had a Q). Neither had a low.


I felt I had 2 choices on the turn. I could have pushed it all in or folded. I also think I should have either raised LA on the turn or folded. But if I fold, what does that say about the flop call?

Your drawing to a 2 suit open ended straight for half the pot. Fold on the flop without a doubt

I agree with folding on the flop, and I probably wouldn't want to play this hand at all. It's not a great high hand and has no low possibilities at all. I'd wait for something better.

I think that by the time the second flush card and the low card made it on the turn, you've got a no-brainer fold.


I think a good case can be made for folding on the flop, however, I don't mind taking a card off for a small bet - assuming you will not get hooked in to paying a big bet if your straight is no good. But, as for myself - I would probably fold just so I didn't put my whole stack at risk w/ a medium straight and no flush/boat/low draws.


The cards you want to see are all off-suit and high. You caught one of the bad ones, a low suited card. Even Magoos can find a 26 to make a low and get atleast half the pot.


In pot limit O8, I think the 9 makes your hand weaker, b/c you'll get stuck playing some straights that make the low out there. Notice that if you hand were AKQJ and the 8 on board was a 9, your hand would be a fair amount stronger, since you make your straight and it's unlikely that a low will take half your pot.

Thanks for your response. I agree with everything you said. The 9 turns a good high hand into a hand that is difficult to play without a good read on the players. LA was unreadable and pushing poor hands which made me too anxious to get involved with him. His small flop bet was unusual for him.


If I have a clear fold on the turn after hitting an out, should I call even a small bet on the flop? I'm not used to calling with a 6 outer (3-9's and 3-Q's give me the nuts with no lo). Then again how often do you let an aggressive player run over you before you take a stand? I know that the answer many will give is to wait for a big hand. But big hands don't come along as often as everyone thinks in Omaha.

It's not an openender. I have a Q meaning any 7,9,J or Q gives me the nut straight. A K gives me a big wrap with which I may be able to buy the pot on the turn. Only the 7 brings a lo.


How do you handle an overly aggressive loose player, stonekiller? I have no problem playing against these types in limit, but in pot limit they've taken me off so many hands by the time I finally hit a flop hard, that they've cashed out 5 racks at the wicket.


Thanks for the response.

See the thing you need to realize it that you are playing Omaha Hi/Lo split. In this game the biggest mistake you can make is playing half the pot. you are drawing ( a very nice draw) for half the pot. In omaha you can not play half the pot any day. I like the flop for your hand but if it comes giving you the straight but putting a low out there, then you're hands expected return cuts by 50%. That sucks. When the turn card comes you have to be gone. Without being able to pull the low and high you shouldnt be there. If you change the way you play omaha, you can cut down on your variance tremendously. SK

I don't play big bet poker, but here's my $0.02 anyway...


I don't understand why you would fold the current nuts after the turn. If you're going to play this high-only hand after the flop, why fold with the nuts? You do have other (non-nut) outs. What am I missing ??

It's a good question Paul. That's why I'm not too sure about the call on the flop.


You frequently have to fold the nuts in O8. Let's say you are in the BB and flop the nut straight with a flop of


4d-6d-7s


I would fold this hand every time if I had no lo. It's going to cost me my stack to try and protect a very precarious holding. There's a good chance that someone is free rolling against you with a made lo.


I was hoping to hit a 9, J or Q so there was no lo out there (or even a K and run a bluff). But now I have to put my entire stack in, and if someone holds a lo with a high draw (2 pair, set bigger flush), I'm going to be lucky to get half.