River play I used to never make...

[mikeyKay]

...and not sure if its correct (but i think so).

at the time no reads on the BB, but checking stats after the session he is loose aggressive before the flop, and passive after.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with A/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
<font color="666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="CC3333">MP1 raises</font>, <font color="666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, CO calls, <font color="666666">2 folds</font>, BB calls, MP1 calls.

Flop: (12.50 SB) A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(4 players)</font>
BB checks, MP1 checks, <font color="CC3333">Hero bets</font>, CO folds, BB calls, MP1 folds.

Turn: (7.25 BB) J/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="CC3333">Hero bets</font>, BB calls.

River: (9.25 BB) 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">BB bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises</font>, BB calls.

Here i say to myself "this is a bet out of nowhere, i should not be scared, i should raise and really let him have it"

Final Pot: 13.25 BB
<font color="green">Main Pot: 13.25 BB, between BB and Hero.</font>

thoughts?

[maxpowers21]

Most opponets would check raise trips on this river, but I would be very sad if i got 3-bet here /images/graemlins/frown.gif

[bobdibble]

[ QUOTE ]
he is loose aggressive before the flop, and passive passive after.


[/ QUOTE ]

You to win here more than 50% to raise, and better than 2/3 of the time to call the 3bet. Considering that this guy is passive, that is unlikely. Given no read, I call. If the guy is passive, I call (mainy because I am personally incapable of raising and folding to a 3-bet). If the guy is aggressive/tricky, I raise and call any 3-bet because I think is full of crap with the 3 bet often enough to call.

Note that Schoonmaker and Sklansky believe you should fold this to a river bet by a passive opponent.. and that pot was even larger. Folding AK top 2 Pair in big pot for 1 bet on river (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&amp;Number=1178473&amp;page=3&amp;view=c ollapsed&amp;sb=5&amp;o=14&amp;fpart=1)

[helpmeout]

I just call here, sure he could be bluffing but why risk 1-2BBs on it.

[nepenthe]

The raise is absolutely correct as long as the opponent is passive and straightforward enough that you can more or less safely fold to a 3-bet. A lot of typical low limit party players love to bet out with a marginal to decent holding on semi-dangerous boards, such as the completed flush, obvious straight, and their favorite...paired boards. Rarely will these players go for a check-raise bluff in these spots. I think at least in the case of a low-paired board such as this one, a raise is warranted with TPTK just because these betouts are so common, and so commonly full of donkey sh<font color="white">i</font>t.

[Michael Davis]

This situation is not similar.

-Michael

[bobdibble]

[ QUOTE ]
This situation is not similar.

-Michael

[/ QUOTE ]

It is only slightly different.. I'll play devil's advocate... What hands do you put a passive, level 1, non-tricky player, that bets when the board pairs? What was op calling down with?

[bdk3clash]

I would raise here too--don't you guys play Ax when you're not sure of your kicker like BB did?

I do this all the time when I'm not sure if I like my kicker because I don't want the river checked behind and most people don't raise the river here when it gets bet into them. Theoretically you can fold to the river raise but I never do.

Trips would almost surely checkraise this river; BB could quite easily have Ax where x isn't J or a 6. AJ, A6, and JJ seem unlikely because of all that check-calling BB did on the flop and on the turn.

I think this is a pretty easy river raise.

Posting Technique Critique: Don't give us ex post facto reads, and don't let us know that BB just called your river raise and didn't 3-bet.

[bdk3clash]

[ QUOTE ]
The raise is absolutely correct as long as the opponent is passive and straightforward enough that you can more or less safely fold to a 3-bet. A lot of typical low limit party players love to bet out with a marginal to decent holding on semi-dangerous boards, such as the completed flush, obvious straight, and their favorite...paired boards. Rarely will these players go for a check-raise bluff in these spots. I think at least in the case of a low-paired board such as this one, a raise is warranted with TPTK just because these betouts are so common, and so commonly full of donkey sh<font color="white">i</font>t.

[/ QUOTE ]
I'm with you up until you advocate even thinking about folding to a 3-bet, which would be silly. At that point you should just call with TPTK based on the pot-size.

[Jonny Melon]

I like how you played this, because this looks like a desperation play from the BB, who likely has a softer A, or (if I didn't know BB called) a pot "stab" or a J. I would be more concerned about AJ than a 6 here, as I've seen people play top 2 HU like this before. You are ahead far too often to not raise. Don't be surprised if BB folds to a raise here from time to time, either.

Jon

[mikeyKay]

[ QUOTE ]

Posting Technique Critique: Don't give us ex post facto reads, and don't let us know that BB just called your river raise and didn't 3-bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

good point, i will do that in the future

[molawn2mo]

BB range of hands for his preflop actions are what? AK, AQ-AJ?, QQ-99, though bigger PP possible.

With AJ you would expect a turn raise.

AK should have been raising flop and turn.

AQ, QQ look most likely (and are betting under the theory that if you are going to see the showdown then it is better to lead the betting) so raise looks good. Me, I tend to be weak and just call.

[molawn2mo]

care to give us the results?

[mikeyKay]

Opponent shows J /images/graemlins/heart.gif5 /images/graemlins/heart.gif and MHIG...the play worked once, but im still not sure if it is a good play in the long run. thanks for all the responses.

-mike

[molawn2mo]

put BB on your buddy list!!!

[beginner]

Yea, I seriously doubt BB called 2 bets cold pre-flop with a 6. And if he had a set of jacks or anything else that beats you, he would likely try check-raising turn or river. Looks like you're ahead.

[beginner]

It is a great play in the long run! I would always raise the river here!