A final table hand

[EnderW27]

I'm in the Empire 5K tournament this evening and we're down to the final 7.

This is the hand directly before the hand in question.

I'm at 30K with blinds having just moved up to 1/2. I make a steal attempt from the CO with 8-6o. The button and BB are both passive small stacks who haven't taken many chances at the table. I expect to win the blinds, but, instead, the button wakes up with a "monster" hand of AJo and pushes. It's only 700 more back to me with a pot of ~11000 so of course I call. I'm frankly quite surprised to see AJo here, but of course I don't improve and the entire table gets to see my lovely cards. Now I'm down to about 23K.

Next hand: I have TT.

Folded to the low stack at the table right next to me who pushes for about 9000.
Frankly, this is surprising to me. This is a guy who, all evening (I've played with him at another table) has called or minimum bet most everything. You can't bluff him out of a pot but he'll give you great odds to catch what you need if you feel like chasing.
So to see him push...I wasn't sure what to make of it.

So it's 9K to you and you have 23K. What's your move? Call, raise, or fold?

Assuming you just call, what's your move if the big stack (on the button) tries to put you all in?

[jslag]

Hand #1:

I don't steal here with 86o. I believe that at the final table you should steal with better hands -- at least when going up against shorter stacks. Because inevitably you will be in the exact situation that you describe... a small stack in the blinds will move in with an Ax hand or similar and you will have to call because of the odds. This is okay if you are the big stack and have a substantial lead, but it doesn't sound like that was the case for you here. Care to share other stack sizes? Obviously, the call was necessary, but I wouldn't have made that move in the first place with 7 left. You want small stacks to make mistakes and let you move up in the money -- if you steal with hands like 86o then you're pretty much asking to double them up.

Hand #2:

I only call here. If the big stack moves in, and I believe/know he is a solid player, I will fold despite having about 40% of my stack invested. Maybe that is a weak play, but personally I don't think TT is necessarily the best hand in this spot, especially with the big stack and the blinds behind you.

If the original raiser is tight, then I might even fold TT here. Your best hope is that he has 22-99. Remember, you've got to have a better hand to call with than to move in with. Again, my tendency is to call here, and fold to a big re-raise. And yes, the stacks behind you may see your move as reckless considering the last hand and may be more inclined to call (which could be really good for you or really bad depending on their holding).

What happened?

After thinking the second hand through more, I am now leaning towards a push. Because if you get more calls behind you, TT will be tough for you to play a flop with unless you hit a set. What are the other stack sizes? I think that's pretty important here.

J.

[EnderW27]

I decided to steal with 8-6 because the two short stacks were so passive, I was pretty sure I could take the blinds. If the large stack played back at me (which was quite rare up to that point), my hand was crappy enough I could get away from it easily. It didn't work out this time though.

My chip stack, as I said, was around 30K, which was middle of the table.
There were two with less than 10K, two around 15K, one at about 50 and the big stack at about 80-90. Even at 15x the blind, I felt comfortable in my chip position and how I was playing against the table.

In the hand in question, I figured if this guy is min raising with AK and QQ, I was pretty sure I had him beat. I don't know why I didn't reraise all-in, but, the tight way the table's been playing I really didn't think anyone else would be coming along.
How wrong I was. In retrospect, calling turned out to be the best option as the big stack moved all-in on me.
And now it's back to me.

I went through some options here mentally as the clock wore down:

1) If he's doing this, it's almost certainly AK or a pair larger than mine. So do I have the odds to call here? AK is a coinflip but it might be worth gambling to get back some money in case my read on the guy I called for 9K was off.

2) How crippled would I be if I folded here? Down to about 15K which I considered pretty bad but, thinking back over it outside the pressure of the 30 seconds I had, I don't think even 15K would be too terrible of a spot relative to other stacks.

3) If both myself and the SS go, I get the larger prize money ($100 difference).


I ended up calling and the worst of all things happened:

The large stack had JJ, the small stack had 66 and hit a set. I'm out in 7th while both players made money off me.

I don't think I like my call. The odds were great the large stack had a larger pair as, even with AK, he might just call and see what the flop brought. Given that I could reasonably put him on a larger pair, I just didn't have the odds to call this bet. The way the table's been playing most hands, I could survive quite comfortably with 15K and a few more steals. I think it was a bad gamble that didn't pay off but I wanted to get other's opinions on it.

[gergery]

For the first hand, I can’t figure your math out, as if you dropped 7k on the hand, then you must have raised 6k, but then the pot would be at least 15k.

Either way, I don’t steal with 86o – not enough high card strength if called, and I don’t steal vs. a very short stack who is likely to call you. And FYI, as a shortstack vs. a CO raise, AJo is easily strong enough to call IMHO.

On the TT hand, my default is push all in to isolate. He has only 4.5xBB so doesn’t have to have a great hand, and I don’t want another player in. If he’s minimum bet everything before, then chances are he’s not pushing now with AA/KK, so you are likely in good shape. Chances someone behind you has AA-JJ are <5%, and its possible they could fold AJ/AQ/JJ hands to your push. If there is something really weird about the table like the big stack is really loose and several players seem willing to blow themselves up, then I suppose you could consider folding, but that seems weak. And I hate flat calling for 40% of your stack and folding preflop under any circumstances – you’d be getting close to 3:1 on a call at that point.

--Greg

[EnderW27]

I looked it up on HH. I was off by a bit, but not much. I had a little less than 29, I raised to 5.2, button went all in for 6. I forgot about the blinds which brings the pot up to 15, not 11 or 12 as I had originally typed.

[Lurshy]

Tough spot.

On both these hands, you need to remember that short stacked people need to play more aggressively. Their passive play may have gotten them short stacked, but if they know at all how to play, then survival instincts kick-in. So short stacked play styles change, old style reads are no longer valid, or at least starting hands become wider.

AJ - perfectly reasonable hand for a short-stacked BB to push heads-up with.

And for many, any PP when shortstacked = auto-push. For that reason, I don't think I get away from 10 10, I would push to cut down on overcard callers. I doubt you would have shaken JJ from the pot even with a push though, so results are the same.