AQ Hand

[Unarmed]

No reads. What's my play here? I hate low limit games at times because A3 sadly isn't an unlikely holding. QJ definitely isn't at any limit... Does any hand I beat really smooth call the flop and then raise me on the turn as the board pairs?

$5 PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t20 (9 handed)

CO (t1770)
Button (t1560)
SB (t1440)
Hero (t1450)
UTG (t1450)
UTG+1 (t1570)
MP1 (t1620)
MP2 (t1470)
MP3 (t1170)

Preflop: Hero is BB with A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
UTG calls t20, UTG+1 calls t20, MP1 folds, MP2 calls t20, MP3 folds, CO folds, Button folds, SB folds, Hero checks.

Flop: (t90) 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif, Q/images/graemlins/club.gif, J/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(4 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">Hero bets t90</font>, UTG calls t90, UTG+1 folds, MP2 folds.

Turn: (t270) 3/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">Hero bets t200</font>, <font color="CC3333">UTG raises to t400</font>, Hero ???

[erfinator]

I was actually confronted with a very similar situation earlier today and i decided to fold. Pre-flop, raising w/ that hand is debatable, and there are arguments either way. Personally, I'd raise here 4x the bb so as to define mine and others' hands. Regardless, I'd fold to a raise on the turn. Even if your opponent is bluffing, you're fairly early in the tournament and folding here will leave you with a decent number of chips. IMO you could find a better situation to get involved with a big hand. And I agree... at a $5 game, A,3 is a very reasonable holding.

[lastchance]

I think UTG has you beat. I hate facing a line like his, and I really think it's a sign of strength. Of course, he could have KQ or something, but I think he might have two pair here, might have made trips...

[Irieguy]

Limping with a big suited ace, multi way is OK from behind... but out of position you are giving up way too much. Playing out of position, you either need betting impetus, or a hidden monster... and checking the BB with AQ gives you neither.

If you accidentally check preflop, your best line is probably to induce a bluff. Otherwise you give your opponents too many ways to beat you, get you off your hand, or get away cheap.

Irieguy

[ChuckNorris]

I have always thought about this the opposite way: when I have position I want more money in the pot and thus raise. When I'm out of position with a questionable hand it is no good, and I limp. Is this incorrect? I think the idea of raising when you are weak (out of position) to give you strength smells like a 'fancy' deceptive play that I don't want to get too involved in low level SnG's.

[stripsqueez]

i think its all good if you folded to the turn raise

stripsqueez - chickenhawk

[Unarmed]

I folded.
I hear your point Irieguy but do you really want to play a biggish pot out of position with AQ against 2 EP limpers?

I almost raised to 100 but I try avoid big pots early unless I have a premium pair.

[morgan180]

I play the Party 10 and 20s and I know the competition is supposed to be much better at Stars, but I think to Irie's point:

In the BB *I* have position on the first round of betting and I am going to leverage it by making a 3x BB raise to see if I can fold either of those two limpers. (on party some people will limp with almost anything)

I know that if I get re-raised I can get away from it with out much damage done, and I can fold once OUT of position if I face a big turn bet like you did.

I agree with your play and fold to that bet too - I just think that in the BB with AQs I raise in the face of only two limpers. But that may be becuase I've been playing at Party too much and people limp early with ANYTHING including A3, which might lay it down in face of a pre-flop raise.

JMO

[Unarmed]

I want A3 in the hand against my AQ, because at these levels he'll probably bust himself if an ace falls.

Thats another reason I don't raise with AQ at the $5 tables, I want dominated aces in, not out.

[mart_ph]

I'd play this hand exactly the same to the flop... but would probably only bet $90 instead of the $200 at the turn.
It's still so early in the tourney that I don't think it's worth pushing too much into the pot when the board has just paired. There's plenty of time to wait for a better hand to possibly double up with.
I'd definitely fold when he reraises.

[Irieguy]

No, you don't want to play a "biggish" pot, but you do want to take control of the hand or else it's too easy to get outplayed.

I might start a new thread about betting impetus and playing after the flop. I don't see much on that topic and would like to get some different opinions.

Irieguy

[PrayingMantis]

I think that with 4 players seeing the flop, in an unraised pot, your TPTK could be problematic when you get this turn raise. You could be ahead of some joker with QTo, but do you really want to find out? Let him have this one.

It could have been completely different if you had raised it PF, but there are good enough reasons not to do so here. Anyway, with your line, you can't really stand any more heat.

Actually, in this case and so many players, I'd sometimes try to check the flop and see the action behind before I make my move (c/r?), OR bet stronger (i.e, overbet) to begin with. Something with this particular T90 bet you made, doesn't look like the best option to me. I see people call you with all sorts of stuff, and you don't really want it to happen here, since you have no reads, no position, tricky hand, etc. You probably want to play it as fast as possible on this flop, or forget about it.