Omaha/8 Hand

Low limit Omaha/8 game I am dealt

AA34 double suited 3 off the gun


Player limps in utg

I raise


There are 2 cold callers and the Big blind calls.


The folp comes down Q82 with 2 hearts

I have nut heart draw with A3 with an overpair and counterfit 4


I bet there is a raise behind one cold call

back to me I re-raise its then called around.


The turn is a 5 offsuit.


Now I have a huge hand openender 4 flush made nut low and overpair. Should I lead with the hope of being raised to protect my aces or check raise? I check raised which traped the 3rd player for 2 bets and I chopped with the second players

A3410 when a 4 came on the river giving us both a wheel.


Thanks

Kick - "Should I lead with the hope of being raised to protect my aces or check raise?"


I don't understand what you mean by "protect my aces." How does leading as opposed to checking with the intention of raising protect your aces?


With the made, uncounterfeitable, nut low and with the extra ace which reduces your chances of getting quartered, plus a good draw for high, maximizing the amount that goes into the pot on the turn should be your goal. How can you best accomplish that goal?


What you should do to maximize the amount going into the pot on the turn depends on your opponents. Trying for a check raise on the turn tends to either get no bets or two bets from each of your opponents, and may knock out any non-nut lows or non-nut flush draws who are faced with a double bet. On the other hand, a bet by you assures at least a single bet from each of your opponents who decides to see the river card - and may result in three or four bets, if you are raised. (If you bet here and everyone folds, fine).


On the third betting round, I think you generally, but not always, tend to get more money in the pot when you lead, rather than attempting a check-raise. (There are obviously important exceptions).


Buzz

with such a powerfull hand you may have made a mistake in reraising from early position.


to answer you question--lead and hope for a raise, but do not reraise because you want them to come in for another draw.

Good answers from Buzz and Yellow here so I'll be brief - I agree with them that leading the turn is the play here.

I disagree with part of your analysis, J-man.


I would almost certainly raise pre-flop with this hand. Missing the deuce is offset by the other values, and this hand is well worth a raise from virtually any position, IMO.


So, you bet the flop. No-brainer. But the raise reduces the field to just 3 players. Once the player on your right cold calls this raise, he is certainly going to call your 3-bet and even a cap from the guy on your left. But, even someone with top set here may not cap it on the flop. You note that your LHO just smoothcalls your 3-bet with his wrap low draw. If he had a high-oriented hand, there are a lot of cards on the turn that could turn his set to dust, so his just smoothcalling at this point is probably his best play to await developments on the flop no matter which way he's going.


YOU are the one with the nut heart draw to go with your low wrap, not them. Even the poor players should be able to see that. I think a 3-bet on the flop is mandatory for you.


Once the 5 hits the turn, here is where your hand reading skills come into play. Low is there and there is still no str8 or flush made. If you think your LHO has raised your flop bet with a high hand based on a set of Q's, for example, he is almost certain to bet if you check, but will he raise if YOU bet. I suppose he should to protect his set against the flush and str8 draws in a small field. So if you think he will raise, bet, hope his raise eliminates the 3rd player on your right, and then you just call as if he has the A3QQ type of hand, or A23Q, then it's you who are behind in the race for the 3/4's. Now maybe this seems silly to try to eliminate someone when you may only be getting a quarter, but maybe this guy has something like AKQQ, or KQQJ, and it's you who are now free-rolling him for the scoop.


If on the other hand, you think this player had been more likely to call your preflop raise with an Ace-low cards type of holding, and his flop raise was based on this low wrap type of hand and nothing else, then check the turn. LHO then HAS to bet his made low, and then you can trap the RHO for 2 bets, centering him between you and your LHO. You certainly have re-draws! If LHO then 3-bets, I would just call because it is now clear your Ace's are not leading for high at this point and you are now hoping for one of the 7 non-pair-the-board hearts to hit the river. If that happens, you just bet the river, because even someone with only a nut low or a set isn't going to bet your hand for you, especially with only 3 players. The nut low isn't going to want to get quartered with no high backup, and the Set Guy isn't going to bet in the face of a flush.


So what I'm saying, I guess, is that your turn decision is not necessarily automatic. Maybe I am offbase here, and others may correct my thinking. Interesting hand.

yes it was an interesting hand, and he had a very powerfull hand.


all that you said is probably correct. my thought about not raising preflop was based upon one of the guys who writes for Card Player...he said you make more money in the long run by not raising preflop when you have a monster because you want lots of callers.

Well, that is certainly true when you have rational, thinking, players in the game. You obviously have not played in the 4-8 O/8 game at West Edmonton Mall lately! In that game, to not raise with AA34 double suited would be criminal, because these guys will cold call with hands like KQ42, or 9885, in a heartbeat. PTL, man, Punish the Limpers. In a tighter, thinking, game, you are quite probably correct. I just never get to play in those games! LOL

if they are calling you with stuff like that I'm sure you"re in a more profitable game than me..enjoy it as long as you can.

They are not as bad as Dunc says.


They are worse! If God could only grant me the patience to sit in that game.

You work your side of the street, and I'll work mine!


Why do you think I am leaving you alone on Tuesdays to wreak havoc on your tournaments at Baccarat? I don't want you, Darse, or anyone else going anywhere near WEM.