Playing Gus Hansen

[zaxx19]

Well ive been spending some quality time with my computer over the last 5 days and in addition to losing a 196 dollar PLO pot(didnt i have the nuts on the flop ..how could 8856 double suited call a reraise cold preflop??)-yikes- i also downloaded the entire 1st season of the WPT. This might sound silly to you guys but ive never seen them.(i lived in canada ehh). Well the hands down best tourney so far has been the commerce casino LA POKER OPEN. Gus Hansen and Andy bloch went head 2 head many times with interesting and mixed results. What was interesting was how Bloch used A relatively passive strategy to counter hansen's almost pathologically aggressive play.
My question is how would you play a player like Hansen?? over the top alot?? Alot of calling down?? Is table positon as important as i would assume??

[Ross]

I think the best strategy might be slightly passive. The problem with going over the top (unless of course you have the goods) is that the super aggressive players might fire twice at the pot even before the flop so your reraise opens up the possibility of a rereraise which is going to be difficult to call.

What makes Hansen so effective is that the super aggressive style is allied to a very astute reader of players and situations. The most important aspect therefore is to mix up your play, making it a little bit more difficult for Hansen to read your play and therefore less vulnerable to attack from the flop onwards.

At this point this is only a theory, although I have played plenty of super aggressives in tournaments I have yet to run into one of Hansen's class.

regards

Ross

[Cleveland Guy]

[ QUOTE ]
Well ive been spending some quality time with my computer over the last 5 days and in addition to losing a 196 dollar PLO pot(didnt i have the nuts on the flop ..how could 8856 double suited call a reraise cold preflop??)-yikes

[/ QUOTE ]


if you don't see why this could be a good move, then you don't get PLO.

[zaxx19]

DUDE I UNDERSTAND WHAT IMPLIED ODDS ARE YES....

IF YUR GONNA BE A COMPLETE TWIT AND SNIPE AT EVERY SINGLE GODDAMN THING I SAY IN THREADS WITHOUT ANY HELPFUL
ADVICE OR EVEN STIMULATING CRITICISM....

GO AWAY...

BELIEVE ME IM A PROFITABLE PLAYER IN PLO 3 WEEKS INTO STARTING I DONT NEED YUR HELP.. NOW BACK TO YOUR PATHETIC JOB IN SOME NONDESCRIPT CUBICLE ....AND GET THOSE WIDGETS MOVING !!!!

[augie00]

Shame on Cleveland Man for going off the subject and being mean, and shame on zaxx for shouting and making himself look like a silly goose. Go to your corners, you two.

[Cleveland Guy]

Thanks Augie - and my apolgies.

[jakethebake]

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks Augie - and my apolgies.

[/ QUOTE ]
...you could come out of your corner. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Cleveland Guy]

I answered from the corner - still waiting for my release.

Ps. - May I at least take off the cap now?

[WinBig]

I don't understand your post Zaxx. If you had the nuts on the flop then how did you lose? Post the hand if you want analysis otherwise this just sounds like a bad beat story.

[Cleveland Guy]

[ QUOTE ]

...you could come out of your corner. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]


It's The end of the day- can I come out now?

[Vince Lepore]

[ QUOTE ]
My question is how would you play a player like Hansen?? over the top alot?? Alot of calling down?? Is table positon as important as i would assume??

[/ QUOTE ]

If you let a player like Hansen get into your head whether he is trying to or not you are lost. You do not adopt a special strategy that you might not be comfortable with when opposing a "pathologically aggressive" or any other left or right of the center player. You play your best game. Your best game should include awareness of your opponent and how to deal with aggressiveness and/or passiveness.

Aggressive players have a tendency to over play their hands. In limit poker you fight over-aggressive play by calling a lot. This is difficult to do in NLH Tournaments because of the unlimited amount that one can bet and the fact that you can't go into your pocket if you lose. You must be aggressive while giving the appearance of being passive. That means folding a lot to insignificant bets and reraising a sgnificant amount with medium and better hands.

Vince

[Lurshy]

Several strategies...

1- Hit him with a baseball bat, and take his chips while he is down
2- If he is on your left, play TAG - Play your best hands, play them aggressively
3- If he is on your right, play passive, call him with good cards, see the flop, come over the top when you hit.

One of the most difficult things about him though, is he is not always LAG, although I have never witnessed his play live, it appears that he changes gears. Tight in beginning, looser once he has medium stack, aggressive on the bubble, loose short handed. He may not be schizo, but his playing styles have multiple personalities.

The 1st choice sounds pretty good.

[Vince Lepore]

I agree that he does change gears. A player that does this well is a formidable opponent. Gus however does make some weak calls and does appear to get impatient at times. I do not make him out as a "live" one. I believe that he is a fair player that I believe plays too aggressively. Even though I believe aggressive play is best for tournaments I think that Hansen over does it. I think that eventually it will catch up with him.

Vince

[zaxx19]

Catch up to him ...well exactly how big will his bank account be when this happens??

I have a frivolous and of topic question... how do poker players get visas to stay in vegas for years and years?? I'm aware in Gus' case he resides mostly in Monaco(no taxes must be nice)..... /images/graemlins/ooo.gif

OH BTW 4 MORE YRS 4 MORE YRS.............

[srblan]

In the first season of the WPT, Andy Bloch's strategy worked fairly well against Gus. In the second season of the WPT at the Five Diamonds, Paul Phillips was constantly playing back at Gus and putting him to the test. That worked so well that Gus made an early exit.

In the Poker Superstars Invitational, Howard Lederer was the first one to employ the strategy of reraising Gus all-in before the flop, but Barry Greenstein and Doyle Brunson both used it effectively after the flop when they got short-handed with Gus in (I believe) the middle of the second round.

Gus shows a willingness to gamble with medium holdings and that makes him extremely dangerous.

It seems to me that check-raising and coming over the top of an opponent that is used to coming over the top of everybody else is an effective strategy. However, it is important to bear in mind that if you make a move before the flop, he will often call you with a less than premium hand, but after the flop, if he has nothing, it is often more plausible to move him off of a hand.

[zaxx19]

I apologize for flaming cleveland it just was getting frustrating posting substantive posts and getting comments on grammar & sidenotes....

[zaxx19]

BTW HERES THE HAND YOU TELL ME IF THIS WAS A HORRIBLE BEAT OR "I JUST DONT UNDERSTAND PLO"

IM IN UTG+2 WITH (A /images/graemlins/spade.gif A /images/graemlins/diamond.gif 7 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif 7 /images/graemlins/club.gif

I LIMP IN BC ITS AN AGGRESSIVE GAME THE POT IS RAISED I RERAISE.

3 PLAYERS LEFT, IM IN MIDDLE POSTION FLOP COME:

7 5 5 (SORRY THE SUITS I CANT RECALL I.E. I FLOPPED A BOAT SO...)

RAISED TO ME I BET POT.. 3RD GUY CALLS RERAISED BY ORIGINAL BETTOR I MOVE IN FOR MY REMAINING MONEY CALL CALL(NOW IM HAPPY BC IM ALMOST 100% SURE ITS A SPLIT 5 5 SITUATION)

TURN COME 8
RIVER COMES J

3RD GUY IN HAD 8876 OR SOMETHING HE WON WITH 88855 HE WAS ALSO THE LAST CALLER ON FLOP HE HAD TO KNOW HE WAS WELL BEHIND AND DRAWING EXTREMELY THIN WITH HIS TRIP (555)
AND HE ENDED UP NOT EVEN USING HIS 5!!!

NOW IF I MIS-PLAYED THAT POT YU GUYS GO AHEAD AND FLAME ME I JUST CANT SEE HOW I CAN PLAY IT ANY DIFFERENTLY PRE OR POST FLOP ESPECIALLY SINCE QUADS WERENT IN PLAY AFTER I SAW 2 OTHER PLAYERS IN POT...

[jakethebake]

[ QUOTE ]
Gus shows a willingness to gamble with medium holdings and that makes him extremely dangerous.

[/ QUOTE ]
In some cases far less than "medium" hands. This is what makes the all-in, reraise strategy dangerous against him.

[Cleveland Guy]

Zaxx - Move this over to the PLO forum if you want some serious advice on this.

I think this is a tough hand, but I don't think the guy who played it did so as badly as you thought he did.

Yes you have the nuts after the flop. I think you did well trying to get all in.

However, this guy does have a very good wrap with a PP higher than anything on the board. You also say that the suits weren't important because you had the boat, well if he has the 8 and 6 that are the same suit of the 7 and 5, he might also have a straight flush draw.

So not knowing stack sizes, I don't think he made a TERRIBLE play here. Against anything but a boat I think he is a favorite on this flop, and even with a boat, he has re-draws to a better boat, or possible straight flush.

I just think this is the nature of the beast of PLO.

Also - apology accepted, and I think I play this hand the same way- trying to get all in on that flop.

[lastchance]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Gus shows a willingness to gamble with medium holdings and that makes him extremely dangerous.

[/ QUOTE ]
In some cases far less than "medium" hands. This is what makes the all-in, reraise strategy dangerous against him.

[/ QUOTE ]
Which is why you have to reraise with every good hand, IMHO, especially if you can get all your chips in before the flop. If you're playing a maniac, you want your AT, AJ against his 97s. I think that Gus Hansen's biggest leak, if you play against it correctly, is by far the looseness of his preflop raising. I think he gives you a lot of chips when you move in over the top of his weak raises, and you put him to a decision that's either A. Call with crap or B. fold, fold, fold. Both of those are good.

[stephensolo]

[/ QUOTE ]
Which is why you have to reraise with every good hand, IMHO, especially if you can get all your chips in before the flop. If you're playing a maniac, you want your AT, AJ against his 97s. I think that Gus Hansen's biggest leak, if you play against it correctly, is by far the looseness of his preflop raising. I think he gives you a lot of chips when you move in over the top of his weak raises, and you put him to a decision that's either A. Call with crap or B. fold, fold, fold. Both of those are good.

[/ QUOTE ]

thats a clear defense of gus in a ring game, but in a tourney he is using other players' fear of being knocked out to his advantage. the risk in constantly re-raising him all-in pre-flop is you will eventually do it when he has QQ, and you're dead. the only cost to him was repeatedly mucking on your re-raises, the cost to you is you're out. paul phillips went over the top on him to beat him, as was brought up before, but paul got lucky in busting him. constantly playing over the top on a player like hansen is inviting a trap.