How do I figure out what I'm doing wrong?

[meanjean]

I've been playing now for several months, mostly at the $2-$4 tables at PP. I seem to have huge upswings and downswings in my "Bankroll". At times I can be up a few hundred bucks and then it seems like I always crash and burn and wind up depositing more (I'm down 350 now and those of you who took it may thank me later). I've read several books (Lee, Hilger, and now SSHE) and am understanding slowly that I SUCK at flop and post-flop play. It's even in my ability level to follow the starting hand charts so I think I'm okay there.

This darling realization of poor play came after reading the Hand Quizzes in SSHE. I got most of them wrong. I'm currently going through each question individually and making sure I understand the ideas behind each. I hope to eventually go back through my hand histories and look at all the mistakes I've made as a way of educating myself. But here is the "Catch 22", since I really stink at the hand quizzes this isn't natural for me and I obviously must have thought I was making the right plays before or I wouldn't have made them so in some way I'm going to have to teach myself how to become an expert in flop concepts. Finally, to the questions: 1. Are there more of these hand quizzes with answers anywhere on the web where I can keep trying to grasp the concepts? 2. Is there a system for "post-mortem's" on hand histories where I can say with confidence these were my mistakes and this is why it is a mistake?

thanks for any advise and as always feel free to flame away

[MoreWineII]

I've got three good tips:

1. Post hands.

2. Post hands.

and 3.) You guessed it, post hands.

And of course, welcome to the forum.

[bdk3clash]

Post actual hands here, and try to respond to hands you find interesting or challenging.

(Seemingly) big swings up and down are normal.

[Malcom Reynolds]

Down $350 isn't a stat in itself an alarming number. That's well within the recommended $1200 bankroll to play 2/4.

That said, there's no clear indication of how to fix what you are doing or how well you are playing unless you post hands here.

Post hands, post hands, post hands. People will help you. If you find that you are making fundamental mistakes, doing things like playing KJo UTG or cold calling with AQo often, don't be afraid to move down to the micro limits and post in the micro forum and work out these fundamentals before coming back to 2/4.

Welcome to the forum.

[bobdibble]

You may want to consider playing .5/1. Imo, it is a much more forgiving game than 2/4. Get PokerTracker and use it to review your play at .5/1. Make sure you are playing as tight/agressive as you think you are, make sure you are only rarely cold calling, etc, but don't read *too* much into the stats. It is also good to replay the hands you lost the most on during a session to look for paterns, but be careful here too.. just because you lost a big hand doesn't necessarily mean you played it wrong. Look for mistakes that viloated the Fundamental Theorom of Poker. Were you not getting odds to call? Did you fail to protect your hand and give your opponent infinite odds or the proper odds to call by not raising, etc.

Then, once you have molded your game and feel like you are crushing .5/1, step up.

I suggest this even if reloading at 2/4 isn't an issue for you financially. At .5/1 you can just focus on the basics. As you move up, you have to start dealing with more agression and trickier play. Granted, the people at 2/4 still suck really bad, and I can clearly see that now. But when I first moved up, 2/4 seemed harder than the previous levels. I'm now testing the waters of 3/6, and while it seems tougher than 2/4, I have no doubt that in a few months I'll think the majority of 3/6 players suck too.

Oh, and one more tip.. When moving up levels, do it over the weekend. The "tougher" (as compared the the previous level) players will still be there, but there are many, many more bad players on the weekend.

[helpmeout]

1. Read more books, MLHE,TOP and HEPFAP should be a minimum addition to what you have already read.

2. Get poker tracker if you dont have it.

3. Leave Partypoker and go play the nanos until you understand how to play and are a proven winning player. (little money required, small rake both allow you to concentrate on becoming a good poker player, not how much money you are losing)

4. Go to micro limits and discuss hands

[nepenthe]

I'll address some of the general concerns expressed in your post.

One of the most conspicuous mistakes habitually made postflop by relative newcomers to the small stakes games has to do with their level of aggression. They do not extract fair value when they have the best hand/draw, tend to stay in with thin draws not warranted by the pot odds, and make dumb aggressive plays/bluffs/semibluffs when they are least likely to work.

You need to first ask yourself which camp you're in. Are you too passive or too aggressive? Do you call down too much with 2nd best hands, or fail to protect your vulnerable hands? Do you stay in for gutshots, two overcards, one overcard, medium one-card flush draws, turned or rivered sets with small/medium pocket pair, etc. - when the size of the pot and the action around you dictate you should fold? The sooner you identify the primary causes of your chip-bleeding, the faster you can begin addressing them.

The fact of the matter is you can make consistent, if not optimal, profits at PP 2/4 by playing tight, straightforward, solid, predictable ABC poker. Many of the concepts delineated in SSHE, while certainly powerful, are more attuned to maximizing profits rather than minimizing risk. As such, these concepts are rather advanced for the newer players and, I daresay, are probably not the primary cause of your current frustrations.

If you are not a winning player at your current limit and are convinced it is not solely due to the vicissitudes of variance, you should go back to the basics and look for ways to minimize chip-bleeding tendencies, before looking for ways to maximize profits.

[meanjean]

thanks for the advise...I've actually been using it

It is fun to post hands and see what people say

[sfer]

Best. Avatar. Ever.

Ahhh, a late entry. A surprise raise, even.

[sfer]

Have you considered playing a smaller limit where the lessons are cheaper?

[Bob T.]

That's what I would have said, but I wouldn't have said it as clearly, completely or succinctly. Nice post. Thanks for contributing.