plz tell me how to play this hand

[theBruiser500]

6 handed, I have Jh Qh in BB, UTG limps, CO raises, I call, UTG calls. Flop comes Kh Js 3h, I lead out, UTG folds, CO raises, I call.

Turn is 5h, I check, he checks...

My thoughts were on the flop I'd rather have it be a 3 way pot then heads up since I have that big draw. Then when UTG folds I don't see a point in three betting it against his very likely king. On the turn I thought he'd feel obligated to protect his hand against a draw so I'd get a checkraise in.

[Schneids]

I 3-bet the flop and lead on the turn.

Depending on your table image the added benefit is many opponents will be less likely to put you on a flush draw, so you are likely to get called down or raised.

Against a vast majority of hands your opponent could hold you're favored to be the winner by the river, as most of the time you'll have 15 outs (counting the RR straight as one out) and you're only really hurting against a set; with KJ or KQ not being great hands to be against either.

Either way, I see no reason not to 3-bet the flop. The small risk of domination is made up by the times your 3-bet gets QQ to fold or gets you extra action when you turn or river the flush.

Edit: It'd be funny to hear you were playing against a person who normally plays NL and checked the turn with red AA /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[theBruiser500]

Hm, yeah, I agree schneids, I was just thinking about the 3 bet... The tougher parts of the hand for me though, are leading out on the flop versus checkraising, or my attempt to go for a checkraise on the turn?

Your edit - hahaha. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[kiddo]

3bet preflop, you want the limper out and get it HU and anyway 3betting JJ is a valuebet.

I think leading on this flop is good because you want to trap the one between you and the raiser for more bets. But I would almost always 3bet (If the one in between calls, u maybe can only call flop and then bet out on turn, trying to make him pay again, but if he folds u should "always" 3bet). If preflop raiser is both lose and very aggressive it seems like a checkraise on turn is good but against someone loose, aggressive its also better to raise flop because he will cap with a lot, including toppair (and then, maybe, u can go for checkraise on turn).

Slowplaying headsup is ok but you should almost never do it out of position. I dont know which lever u play at, but the lower the level the more surprised they will be when u play a set hard on flop, because everyone slowplays at microlimits. Same if you flop flush, pretend you want to protect your toppair against the flushdraws and bet/raies flop. When they finally understand what you really got they have already lost a lot.

[theBruiser500]

I was talkign to a friend who plays limit, he was in favor of not betting on the flop, he suggests a checkraise and then leading on the turn which has more of a chance of winning the pot outright.

[Schneids]

[ QUOTE ]
3bet preflop, you want the limper out and get it HU and anyway 3betting JJ is a valuebet.

[/ QUOTE ]

Bruiser has Q /images/graemlins/heart.gifJ /images/graemlins/heart.gif not JJ.

[Schneids]

Your hand is way too strong on the flop for you to be worrying about trying to win the pot outright. I think betting is better because you are hoping UTG will come along as well. Plus if even the small chance your opponent will check AT or AQ or TT on this flop but would have called a bet (OR raised!) you just gave him some Sklansky bucks.

To put it another way: I am betting out on the flop hoping to get to put in 4 bets on the street.

Additionally I think betting and 3-betting is much more convincing than merely check-raising... Everyone checkraises PF raisers!

Anyway I'm getting redundant now so I'll get out of the way and hope others have reasons for check-raising the flop.

[theBruiser500]

Boy schneids, you must like me huh? You keep responding to my posts. Thanks!

[Schneids]

[ QUOTE ]
Boy schneids, you must like me huh? You keep responding to my posts. Thanks!

[/ QUOTE ]

No. I hate you. I just enjoy advocating flop caps. /images/graemlins/cool.gif

[kiddo]

/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

[theBruiser500]

I was just thinking about this hand and realized... I don't like checkraising the flop with the idea of winning it outright because if my opponent has a king there is no way I'm moving him off it, if my opponents hand is worse than mine I'd like him to put some money in.

The river was a rag, and I checked. I figured he would have to bet a king now and he'd call my checkraise. In retrospect though I think I might be giving him too much credit and there's a very good chance he has a weak hand he's going to check behind on the river with.

[Chobohoya]

I think it's odd that he would raise the flop and then check the turn. I think you'll get your C/R often enough for that to be the standard line.

I don't think I like 3-betting the flop because it's pretty obvious he's got a king. I think you can bet and probably 3-bet the river safely after the turn checks through.