QTs

[joker122]

Party Poker 10/20 Hold'em (6 max, 5 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP with T/images/graemlins/club.gif, Q/images/graemlins/club.gif.
<font color="666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="CC3333">Button 3-bets</font>, <font color="666666">2 folds</font>, Hero calls.

Flop: (7.50 SB) 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif, J/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="CC3333">Button bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises</font>, Button calls.

Turn: (5.75 BB) 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">Hero bets</font>, Button calls.

River: (7.75 BB) 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">Button raises</font>, <font color="CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, Button calls.

Final Pot: 13.75 BB

[balkii]

hey joker, I dont understand the flop checkraise. the only hand you might get him to lay down is what, a small pocket pair that he was isolating with?

I'd check call the flop and check raise when/if I hit a straight, check call down a Q, and possibly a T.

[stripsqueez]

check raising the flop seems the only thing of interest - bit pushy but if you get a better hand to fold only a very small amount of the time its a winner

stripsqueez - chickenhawk

[joker122]

[ QUOTE ]
the only hand you might get him to lay down is what, a small pocket pair that he was isolating with?


[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know...small-mid PP, AQ, QQ, a jack? This is all assuming I follow up with a turn bet. It also disguises my hand and allowed me to 3bet the river

This been my line for as long as I can remember, even when I played 10 handed. I've always checkraised the pre flop aggressor with my good draws. I posted it because I wanted to see if anyone else still does this. I think it might be just an older, forgotten play from the SS forum.

[ProfLupin]

Interesting...What's your river line if you missed? I.E. say we have the identical hand except the turn is the 2 /images/graemlins/spade.gif instead of the 9. You bet out on the turn and are called. River is a blank...fire again? Check/fold?

[Schneids]

I also think a checkraise is a must here against all but the tightest of PF 3-betters. You are going to move him off of TT or lower very often. And as you point out, it helps disguise your hand when you do hit which can be worth an extra bet or two.

[balkii]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
the only hand you might get him to lay down is what, a small pocket pair that he was isolating with?


[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know...small-mid PP, AQ, QQ, a jack? This is all assuming I follow up with a turn bet. It also disguises my hand and allowed me to 3bet the river

This been my line for as long as I can remember, even when I played 10 handed. I've always checkraised the pre flop aggressor with my good draws. I posted it because I wanted to see if anyone else still does this. I think it might be just an older, forgotten play from the SS forum.

[/ QUOTE ]


40K hands of the 5/10 6max game tells me there is no way QQ or a J is folding anywhere before showdown, and AQ/AT certainly isnt folding to a turn bet.

so that leaves...TT and down; a lot of my earn comes from playing against opponents who are still calling those down.

I could be wrong.

[Schneids]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
the only hand you might get him to lay down is what, a small pocket pair that he was isolating with?


[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know...small-mid PP, AQ, QQ, a jack? This is all assuming I follow up with a turn bet. It also disguises my hand and allowed me to 3bet the river

This been my line for as long as I can remember, even when I played 10 handed. I've always checkraised the pre flop aggressor with my good draws. I posted it because I wanted to see if anyone else still does this. I think it might be just an older, forgotten play from the SS forum.

[/ QUOTE ]


40K hands of the 5/10 6max game tells me there is no way QQ or a J is folding anywhere before showdown, and AQ/AT certainly isnt folding to a turn bet.

so that leaves...TT and down; a lot of my earn comes from playing against opponents who are still calling those down.

I could be wrong.

[/ QUOTE ]

A point to add is that it is much more likely that AJ or QQ will 3-bet on the flop in 10/20 than in 5/10. Esp. the AJ, because a player that is aggro enough to 3-bet with AJ against a tight or unknown player (I assume in the mind of joker's opponent, joker fits one of these two definitions) is def. aggro enough to 3-bet on the flop and keep control.

[joker122]

Yeah, I think this play is much more effective with a favorable board...like Ah9h on a 4h 8h Ts board or something. The flop in my hand can hit so many 3betting hands. Byt the way, he had KJo and MHWG obviously.

[Trix]

I just check-call the flop as I dont think I will win it by check-raising often enough to make up for the times he will flatcall and raise the turn or the raise I wont get in on the turn when I hit.

[Benjamin]

I found plays like this to be very effective at the 5/10 tables, but I'm having trouble with them at 10/20 for the reason that Schneids brought up: the more aggressive 10/20 players will 3-bet with a lot of hands there ... including, it seems, stuff like TT, or AQ.

I think, as you followed up with, that you'd want a more favorable board for this type move at 10/20. But I don't really know, just trying to find my way myself. /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

B.