Wild 3rd Street in 5-10 Stud at Mirage

I was playing 5-10 stud at the Mirage today. The table seemed typical. There was a 3rd street raise in about half the hands with 3-5 callers but only rarely a re-raise. A pure calling station is in Seat 1. The rest of the table is a mixture of competent and good (but not great) players.


I've been playing for about three hours and my preffered play seems to be folding on 3rd street or bringing it in for $1 with garbage. I'm just not getting many good starting hands.


A new hand is dealt and I've got my biggest pair of the day- split Kings with a Queen Kicker. I've even got a two-flush in hearts to go with it. Here's how 3rd street looks.


Seat 1: (x,x) J

Seat 2: (x,x) J

Seat 3: (K,Q) K This is me.

Seat 4: (x,x) K

Seat 5: (x,x) Q

Seat 6: (x,x) 3

Seat 7: (x,x) 8

Seat 8: (x,x) 7


Two hearts are out.


Right away the hand is strange. The low-card 3 brings it in for the full $5 bet. This hasn't happened once since I sat down. Somebody immediately points out all the "heavy lumber" on the other side of the table.


The 8 calls. The 7 folds. The calling station in seat 1 with the J calls (He called EVERY 3rd street raise the entire time I played with him), The J in Seat 2 folds.


Now it's my decision. I've got enough respect for the low-card player that I don't think he'd raise with nothing especially with so many big cards showing. I also don't like seeing one of my Kings and one of my Queens still on my left and yet to act. My first instinct was to raise but I decide to just call.


The K in Seat 4 raises. The Q calls.


Then the low-card 3 makes it 3 bets.


And if that wasn't enough, the 8 makes it 4 bets.


The calling station in Seat 1 calls (what else?) and then it's up to me again.


This is what was going through my mind- "What the hell just happened?"


And what do I do now?


As usual, results will be posted later.

My read of the situation is this...this player would probably only make the full bet with a real hand. With all the action on 3rd street, and no aces on board, your up against pocket aces at the very minimum, and the 8 that limp-raised may be rolled up. I probably would have raised initially on 3rd street, but calling and waiting to see another card is an option. When it is 3 bets back to you, I would muck without a second thought. You are probably way behind here, you've only put $5 in the middle and you are almost certainly beaten. You have a big hand, but wait for a better spot. If you call the three cold, you will likely be locked in till the river, and it will be expensive sailing. Kings up (if you catch it) is unlikely to be good, and don't discount the fact that the king that raised could have kings with a worse kicker killing all your set outs. Call me a rock, but I say fold up shop and lose $5.50 instead of fifty bucks. Would be interested in hearing the opinions of others.


Jeff

was this the afternoon crowd or the nighttime crowd? The afternoon guys are all rocks.


Also, since the other K raised there is the possibility that you are completely dead, since he would not likely reraise without pocket aces, so there is the possibility that you are the third or fourth best hand and one of your K's is dead and one of your q's is dead.This seems like an easy fold at 5-10 since the ante structure is small.


pat

Good (or great) players sometimes fold the best hand, never the poor ones.


Now a look at your situation. It's very important to know if some of your opponents is tired, drunk, upset or big losing. Suppose one of them belong to these categories but I don't think (except the abitual caller n.1) there are 2 or more such players in that spot. Beside this, it's not important whether 3 bring-in has rolled, A-3-3 or other hands. When the King raised you are done. Your main problem it's playing heads-up or with 2 other opponents, but with all that action, your kings are dead. The only your option to win the pot is catching another KIng (if available). Catching a Queen is terrible because you want to muscle up your opponents and if you face a rolled you are a big underdog. Obvious you cannot play slowly your 2 pairs. If you catch a 3rd suit (a ten, an Ace) it's difficult to release the hand (pot odds) but it's difficult to complete the flush too.


My suggestion: I have folded and the best news are that I'm in the pot with almost nothing.


Probable opponents holding? 2 of them have a flush draw or some sort of straight draw, bring in (AA)3 or 333 or A3-3, one of the other lower cards is rolled.


Marco

For reference, these are the 3rd street hands.


Seat 1: (x,x) J

Seat 2: (x,x) J

Seat 3: (K,Q) K This is me.

Seat 4: (x,x) K

Seat 5: (x,x) Q

Seat 6: (x,x) 3

Seat 7: (x,x) 8

Seat 8: (x,x) 7


I came to two conclusions when the 4-bet got to me.


1. I was probably in third place with my split Kings behind the low-card 3 and the 8. I put one of them on pocket Aces and the other on trips. It was certainly possible that they both had pocket Aces and I wasn't too far behind but that seemed like a longshot.


2. My cards were dead. The K to my left in Seat 4 who 2-bet almost certainly had split Kings as well. And the Q in Seat 5 possibly had split Queens. The Q could have a three-flush or three-straight but at least one of my Queens was dead.


So I ground my teeth and folded. This was definitely the best hand I've ever folded on third street. I think the hand is playable with such a big pot if my cards were completely live but being behind and drawing dead is the easiest way to lose money. The K in Seat 4 would learn this lesson.


After I folded, the K called and the Q called. Then, the low-card 3 FOLDED!!! I was stunned. It didn't make me regret my decision but how could somebody 3-bet and then decide not to call a 4-bet?


4th, 5th, and 6th street were all the same:


K checks, Q checks, 8 bets, K calls, Q calls

(The calling station in Seat 1 with the J folded without seeing a river card but I don't remember when he folded.)


On the river, the hand went check, check, check


The 8 turned over his hand: trip 8s unimproved since 3rd street

The K mucked (I'm sure he had Kings, though)

The Q turned over split Queens....and four consecutive running cards to make a 5-high straight.


His Wheel took a pot of almost $200.


The 8 picked up his chips and left the table in disgust.


There was discussion of the hand afterwards. The low-card 3 said he had pocket Aces and despite his fold, I believe him. I never would have folded in his position since the Aces were live but this guy said he put the player to his left on trip 8s and didn't want to chase at a cost of $10 per street. It's much too rock-like to fold Aces here but I'm sure that's exactly what he did. He couldn't have had anything else. Two 3s were on the boards by 5th street and the dealer (totally out of line) said the low-card couldn't have had trip 3s when that happened. He couldn't have had Kings or Queens either. And Jacks are unlikely and cetaily not a 3-bet hand. I'm convinced: he 3-bet pocket Aces and folded to the 4-bet.


The split Qs shook his shoulders as the 8 left in disgust and said that he kept calling because the pot was so big.

Your fold on third street is correct. Your hand is fairly dead and it won't play well in a multiway pot. Remember, seven-card stud, as its name implies is a seven card game, and with a dead king and queen out your hand is much weaker. In addition, given the way the hand is played on third, there might be two other kings and two other queens out which really hurt your hand.

Dear poker player,

I agree with you! However, I


would have taken it a step further

and not call the original 5.00.


Larry"Sitting Bull" Duplessis

Dear Pat,

I agree with you 100%.


Larry"Sitting Bull"Duplessis

Did you consider folding your KQK for the first $5 bet?


I expect that when the bring in brings it in for the max, it means a real hand. Further, your cards are terribly dead.


I dunno, maybe its just me?

Folding for the first $5 bet crossed my mind but giving up on what has the outward appearance of the best 3rd street hand just wasn't in me at that moment. I was hoping to catch good on 4th street (King, Queen, or more likely a 3rd heart).


I thought the K to my left would fold and I would most likely be high on 4th street. I planned to bet into the low-card 3 and see what he did. If he raised....I had a big decision to make.

Dear Player,

You're a dead door nail in this situation! Why would you play "wishful" poker?


Sitting Bull

Because the implied odds justify seeing the 4th street card for just 1 bet.

Dear Dynasty,

I think you need to take into consideration your chances

of improving to a winning hand in addition to considering

the implied odds.


Sitting Bull