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View Full Version : Situations That May Be Leaks...


SparkyDog
10-31-2004, 05:54 PM
Assume a typical Party $1/$2 6-max table for all questions.

Situation 1: Pre-flop raising with hands having no showdown value

Assume you are dealt KQo in early position. Raising will likely limit the field to 3 other players, including a blind. Those that call will also often have hands that are slightly ahead or drawing live against you. It's fair to say that KQo must hit the flop to win at showdown, so why raise in a game where there will almost always be a showdown without seeing first if you hit the flop? Most players will not fold hands that are ahead of KQo (however slightly), so does them folding hands like J6 to a raise increase your chances of winning? After all he would have to hit twice and you once, and that seems to be a bit of a parlay. In late position open-raising with a hand like KQo and the other weak top pair hands makes sense to me, because you will often be ahead of hands that players will defend their blinds with and you also have fold equity against Ace-rag hands that are ahead of you but are easy to read when they hit their Ace and may fold when they don't hit an ace to your aggression. So the fold equity you gain makes the raise worth it; but in a multiway pot your fold equity isn't enough.

Situation 2: Aggressiveness in loose-passive games

When weak TP hands like KTo, QJo, ATo, etc. flop marginal hands like 2nd pair with an overcard kicker is it usually correct to bet out? I'm finding that opponents are often calling me down with top pair and letting me do them betting for them. Obviously this is one of those poker questions where the answer is "It depends." But on what? Position, the action, number of players, and the nature of the board are the three factors that come to my mind.

Obviously later position is better since you'll have more information. The only question is on what type of boards and how many players is leading out with 2nd pair generally correct with?

Concerning the action, with a PFR and an overcard to my pair, chances are the likelihood of my pair being good isn't too high. Assuming a PFR on your left (since I wouldn't be cold-calling raises with the type of hand I'm discussing) my default line would be to check, and probably fold especially if there are callers (telling me someone has my pair beat, even if it isn't the PFR'er). Also, a bet and call or raise to me also indicates I should probably fold or consider my hand a drawing hand, even without a PFR.

Marginal made hands favor fewer players. That's pretty simple. I get automatically cautious with 3 others in; but position helps here.

Lastly, and probably the most complex, is the type of board. What type of boards do these hands like most? It's definitely not well-coordinated ones. That leaves ragged and average coordinated boards. What are some examples of what some of the experienced posters would consider favorable boards to 2nd pair hands?

Situation 3: Ace-High on Paired Boards

Assume that you have A9o in the BB. 2 limpers and SB completes. Some of these flops will be obviously more favorable than others, next to them I put out my default line:

244 - Bet and see what happens, especially in LP.
667 - Position depedent, but usually a bet.
J33 - Same as 244.
JJ8 - Check/fold, unless I have a read on the player betting.
KQQ - Check/fold.
883 - Bet.

Is it usually profitable to try to protect your hand on some of these flops? Lately I've usually been throwing a bet out on these flops that are less likely to have hit someone. Is this a line I should reserve for late position or read based plays? In other words, how bad are the reverse implied odds in these situations? Do the chances that I get outdrawn plus the chances that I'm already behind outweigh the times I'm ahead with the Ace kicker?

Situation 4: Determining Leaks

After being down for $34.08 over 3,647 hands for a BB/100 of (0.47) I'm starting to wonder what I'm doing wrong besides not running well. Any advice on how to determine leaks?

Sorry for the length, and thanks in advance for any discussion.

Benjamin
11-01-2004, 06:15 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Assume you are dealt KQo in early position. Raising will likely limit the field to 3 other players, including a blind. Those that call will also often have hands that are slightly ahead or drawing live against you. It's fair to say that KQo must hit the flop to win at showdown, so why raise in a game where there will almost always be a showdown without seeing first if you hit the flop? Most players will not fold hands that are ahead of KQo (however slightly), so does them folding hands like J6 to a raise increase your chances of winning? After all he would have to hit twice and you once, and that seems to be a bit of a parlay.

[/ QUOTE ]

Raise because they will call 2 bets cold with much worse hands than yours. It's a value bet first and foremost. Play at these tables is ridiculously loose, make them pay you when you are pretty sure you are ahead. Also raise to get some of the trash out of the hand. That trash, if you let it come in cheap, has just a good of chance of pairing the flop as you do ... you are much more likely to win with it out. Your comment about J6 needing to hit twice to beat you is wrong unless you pair.

And every so often you will actually make someone fold a small pocket pair or a weakish ace ... both are grand accomplishments when you hold KQ. But really the main thing is making multiple people pay 2 bets to see the flop with their junk. You mention J6, well, J6s, and sometimes much worse, will frequently cold call your raise in these games. That's money in your pocket.

[ QUOTE ]
When weak TP hands like KTo, QJo, ATo, etc. flop marginal hands like 2nd pair with an overcard kicker is it usually correct to bet out? I'm finding that opponents are often calling me down with top pair and letting me do them betting for them.

[/ QUOTE ]

That does happen a lot, eh? But they don't punish you with raises, which is nice. /images/graemlins/smile.gif As you say later, it depends. And it would take a chapter to cover it in any depth. But second pair with an overcard kicker is a holding that should be played past the flop pretty frequently, IMO. Look for other good things going on in these hands to decide if you should bet, raise, or call instead of folding. Do you have any decent draws with your pair, even a gutshot? Do you have a backdoor flush draw and/or backdoor straight draw?

Early position is tougher to play, but if there hasn't been a preflop raise, then sometimes you can checkraise a late position bettor to clear the field a bit and catch a bluff sometimes. From late, if it's checked to you, bet away. If you are bet into late, then count the your outs, including 1 for each good backdoor draw, and decide if it's worth drawing.

[ QUOTE ]
Situation 3: Ace-High on Paired Boards

[/ QUOTE ]

Probably a good idea to bet out on these type boards with some regularity. You might be ahead, you might improve, and the pair on the board can make it tougher for people to call. If you do check, and it's checked around, then fire on the turn. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[ QUOTE ]
After being down for $34.08 over 3,647 hands for a BB/100 of (0.47) I'm starting to wonder what I'm doing wrong besides not running well. Any advice on how to determine leaks?

[/ QUOTE ]

Your sample size is way to small to draw conclusions about winrate. For leaks ... do you have Poker Tracker yet? You could post your stats here for feedback if you have it. If you don't, then get it. Also pick some hands that you have questions about and post them for feedback.

Good luck,
B.

SparkyDog
11-02-2004, 06:40 PM
Thanks for the reply.

Concerning the leaks; I know ~3k hands isn't enough to draw any sort of conclusion since I now have 4,260 hands @ +0.25BB/100. I wasn't able to blame a random downswing over 3000 hands entirely though, which led to this post of me largely thinking out loud.

My PT stats are VPIP - 26%; PFR - 12.51%; WtSD - 36.57%; W$SD - 50.75%; AF-F - 2.95; AF-T 2.86; AF-R - 1.83.

joker122
11-02-2004, 09:37 PM
After reading your reasoning in some of these situations, I completely agree that you have some leaks in your game. Posting some actual hands will be the best remedy. Good luck.