Tight Passive Player Comes Out Betting

[banditdad]

I'm not seeing monsters under the bed.

This guy has not bet out without a real hand. Usually just check/calls. I put him on AK, KK, even KQ or JJ. Was I right to just fold it and probably save 2BB?

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (8 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is Button with Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif, Q/images/graemlins/club.gif.
UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, MP1 calls, MP2 folds, CO folds, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises</font>, SB folds, BB folds, MP1 calls.

Flop: (5.50 SB) 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, K/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">MP1 bets</font>, Hero calls.

Turn: (3.75 BB) J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">MP1 bets</font>, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 4.75 BB

[Stealthy]

I probably would have raised his bet on the flop to see how he responded. If he re-raised or, called and then came out betting again on the turn, then I suspect I am beat.

By raising him, he might have slowed down and not bet the turn which saves you half a bet when you check as well. Now you can check/call the river where you may well have the best hand.

By working it this way you are spending an extra 1/2 bet to gain information, without it you are just guessing that you are beat.

[matt hooley]

I must disagree. Raising him on the flop does not tell you when you are beat because he is passive, it only tells you when you are beat by a monster. If he has King-rag you are beat but you're likely to have stoped him from betting out on subsequent rounds. If, however, you call on the flop and observe his actions on the turn, you will actually have more information because now he will bet out with more hands, and top pair or better beats you.

[TheHip41]

Weak.

Raise the flop. If he's as tight as you say, he'll either 3-bet you, then you can fold the turn UI, or he'll probably jsut call, then you can check the turn behind him.

[TheHip41]

[ QUOTE ]
I must disagree. Raising him on the flop does not tell you when you are beat because he is passive, it only tells you when you are beat by a monster. If he has King-rag you are beat but you're likely to have stoped him from betting out on subsequent rounds. If, however, you call on the flop and observe his actions on the turn, you will actually have more information because now he will bet out with more hands, and top pair or better beats you.

[/ QUOTE ]

So if he has A7, and bets the flop, and I just call, then what? Say the turn is a 2, and he bets again, are you folding?

[matt hooley]

if he is tight-passive it's pretty unlikly he would come out betting with A7 on that flop. if the turn comes a blank like a two and he still bets out i am folding because (1) i'm very likely to be beat and (2) the pot is quite small.

[Douglas Leslie]

Has this guy been in the habit of limping with hands like KK,AK etc? If not, what kind of hand do you place him on? With such a small pot, you should arguably just fold to the bet on the flop if you are confident of your read. After all, your hand is unlikely to get any better on the turn. It's either a calling hand or it isn't. If you do decide to stay in the hand, I think you should raise and fold to a re-raise. If he calls and bets the turn, you should still fold. If he calls and then checks the turn you should probably bet in the hope that he folds. If he calls, you are done betting the hand and should check/fold the river. This will cost you up to two big bets in the hope of saving a pot with five SBs in it before the flop. I doubt whether it is worth the investment.

[mmbt0ne]

Raise the flop. If he 3-bets, call and fold the turn unimproved. If he just calls the raise, then you're turn play is up for discussion. I'd still fold here if bet into since he is a passive player, but I would bet if checked to. Obviously, if he check-raised you should fold, but if he just calls, I hope for a check on the river and a free showdown. A passive player isn't going to hang around this long with a hand QQ beats often enough to make a river bet worth it.
I think you're read was probably right here, but the call on the flop was pretty bad.

[HajiShirazu]

Well, it's like this.
If you think there's a reasonable chance that the guy will bet out without a king, you call down, or possibly raise the flop folding to a 3-bet, bet the turn, bet/check river.
If you don't, you fold. You have two outs.

[Yads]

I think KQ is a very likely holding, unless he's been known to limp with AK or KK. But yeah you have to raise him on the flop to see how much he likes his hand. Why did you call the flop bet, when you were just going to fold the turn unimproved? The pot odds certainly aren't there.