omaha 8/better hand

here's an 8/ better hand where I let being on the button get the better of me I guess, along with the game being short handed influenced my thinking as well


6 handed home game, dealer choice (as long as it's a hi-lo game) Stakes 1-5 which invariably becomes a 5 dollar flat betting and raising game. 1-2 dollar blinds


A little more background, I'm the tightest player in the bunch by far. These guys will play any 4 cards preflop in any position and for any raise. This is why I always deal 8/better when it get's to me. Post flop they will stay in if they have any sniff of a draw.


Here's the hand-All limp to me, I can't believe no one raised. Since I have a strong read the blinds won't pop it I make an extremely loose two dollar call with JJ77.


I know, I know, horrible call but I've folded so much the natives are getting restless. And I'll muck it if popped 5 bucks by the blinds, natives be damned.


Well, no raise and here comes the flop 7-4-J rainbow (there will be no flush opportunities for anyone in this hand)


SB checks BB (very agressive) bets 5, call, call, fold, me (on the button) raise 5, SB folds, BB calls, call, fold, fold.


Three-handed 47 dollar pot


turn Q Board 7-4-J-Q


BB checks, next checks, I bet 5, call, call.


Three-handed 62 dollar pot


river(ed) Ace Board 7-4-J-Q-A


BB checks - middle opponent comes alive and bets five. I glance left and see the BB looks fairly disgusted and I assume he was on a low draw and the ace counterfeited his hand. I have to pay off here as the bettor often will get frisky on the river with as little as top two pair or less (and I'm not afraid of a re-raise behind me). Also he might just be betting his low on the river.


So I call the five and to my dismay look at KT (I didn't get to see his other two cards) and it's goodbye 22 dollars. As I said "that's good" and mucked my hand, all I could think of was I got what I deserved with that preflop call. And would'nt Ray Zee be proud of me now! (sorry coach, if I let ya down here)


But is this one of those situations where one might make a loose call now and then for a miracle flop? (But I only got 2/3's of the miracle)


But once I did make the 2 dollar call, how was my play of the hand once the flop came. Hopefully I got that right. You don't think I should have taken the free card on the turn do you? I figured I still had the best hand except for someone with QQ and would want to charge for draws.


Thanks for any input.....

With the small blind and great implied odds due to the loose players, yes you can take chances and hope for a miricle flop.


Never-the-less, the miricle had better give you the nuts. Pairs don't make full houses very often, and JJ won't make top full every time and 77 will almost NEVER make top full.


So, what's a realistic "miricle" flop to JJ77?


If you want to go out on a limb, then play combinations that require certain key cards to be good, so when you get your miricle" you like it.


Its rare that a non-nut hand is worth playing, except when you have some nut or nut draw ALSO in the hand: Yes, an over-pair is pretty good when you have the nut low.


- Louie


PS. The "restless natives" are within.

"I glance left and see the BB looks fairly disgusted"


Hillbilly - That's a common "tell" in a low limit game. Means the opposite of what the player is representing. This tell is very reliable, although not absolutely certain. If you don't mention it (the tell) to any players in your game, you will be able to use it (the tell) to your advantage in the future.


As to your play. Fine up to the turn. It would be a very short-sighted mistake, politically, to play too tight in a friendly home game. Poker advisors may tell you haw to play poker but they don't tell you how to win friends and influence people, which should be your main goal in a friendly small-limit home game, in my humble opinion. Contacts made here can be invaluable, away from the poker table, in the future. Worked for me.


Playing your set of jacks aggressively on the flop sets the stage for playing other, better, hands aggressively on the flop. Betting the flop might cause opponents to fold before the turn, which is what you really should want with this hand. Sets don't usually win for high in full loose games of Omaha-8. You would like to improve your set of jacks, but you don't have many outs (only 5). However, if you could limit the field enough, your set of jacks might hold up.


Otherwise, as more board cards are exposed, your set of jacks will probably not remain the nuts and, with only 5 outs for the re-draw, will probably not improve.


"turn Q Board 7-4-J-Q"


Your set of jacks is probably still good at this point. However, consider the cards to come on the river. Which cards do you like and which don't you like?


A, 2, 3, 5, 6, and 8 enable low. In addition, A, 3, 5, 6, and 8 enable a straight. 9, T, and K enable a straight. Q makes you a full house, but it's an "under" full house. "Under" full houses lose about as much as they win and can be expensive when they lose.


The only cards you really like on the river are jacks, sevens, and fours. That's only five cards out of 44 unknown cards!! Thus the odds are 39 to 5, or 7.8 to 1 that you won't like the river card!


Betting at this point (after the turn) is not likely to get anyone with a good draw out of the pot. Time to back off.


Just my opinion.


Buzz

Louie - I agree a pair of sevens is not very good and can be expensive. The same is true of jacks, to a slightly lesser extent.


But I like being dealt a pair of aces, kings, or even queens in Omaha-8. When you make a full house it's usually a winning full house, often beating a lesser full house for a big pot and a scooper. If you catch one of your pair on the flop, you have more outs than when making two or three pair on the flop. And, if you can manage to limit the field, your high set may hold up, often for a scooper.


I strongly disagree with you about non-nut hands, especially non-nut <u>high</u> hands, not often winning. The trick is figuring out what your opponents have and dumping your non-nut high hands when you are facing the nuts. The better you can do that, the better Omaha-8 player you are.


Having written the previous paragraph, I should emphazize that it is often inadvisable to <u>draw</u> for non-nut highs, especially non-nut flushes or non-nut straights - and it usually is inadvisable to draw for non-nut lows.


As to the "restless natives" being within, I think sensitivity to others is a worthwhile attribute to have, both in a poker game and away from it.


Just my opinion.


Buzz

You point about there being few cards you like is a good one and emphasises the weakness of medium pairs making trips. However, its extremely unlikely that most of these cards will actually hurt you since you are against only 2 opponents.


I think you are still an (uncomfortable) favorite and are likely to pay off the river. If so, bet for value on the turn.


- Louie