08 point count systems

Hi guys, I have been looking at an 08 point count system for starting hands. I notice that wilsons turbo 08 software has drills to remember these point count systems. Are these systems for selecting starting hands good, bad or otherwise. Thanks

Their authors don't use them.

its like memorizing all those stupid things in school. all of us can recite the pledges and such but most have no idea what they are all about.

I agree with Ray. In general these point counts are worthless. In my book POKER ESSAYS, VOLUME II there is an essay called "Is a Point COunt Worthwhile." It gives a good explanation as to why I believe they have essentially no value.

Daniel - Point count systems work well in a partnership game like bridge because you're communicating information to your partner during the bidding, and your partner is communicating information to you. There is no bluffing involved in the bidding. None at all, else you will destroy the partnership. The main reason for a certain high card point requirement when you open the bidding in a bridge game is so that your partner can make more sense of your bid, not so that you will know when you have a hand worthy of opening the bidding.


Contrast this to poker. In poker you really don't want to be communicating information to anyone - at least not correct information. Although there is not as much bluffing in Omaha-8 as there is in Texas hold 'em, but there is some bluffing - and there always is the threat of bluffing. (I consider blind stealing a form of bluffing).


Since the cards you play pre-flop and how you play them are very positional and opponent dependent, a point count system can impede skillful play. In addition, in my humble opinion, the cards you play are also area dependent. For example, I play differently in Las Vegas than I do in L.A. In either place, I play differently against some mixes of opponents than against other mixes.


On the other hand, it might be helpful for some beginners to use a point count system as a guide to playing tighter, pre-flop. If so, Wilson's system or Hutchison's system (free on the internet) is fine as a guide. There are several other point count systems as well.


If you're just starting, IMHO, very tight play is the key to survival. Play hands that can scoop and hands that can often make the nuts. For example, Kh-Qd-4h-2c does not have as much of a chance of scooping or making the nuts as Ah-Kd-4h-2c.


In a full game, in general, you probably wouldn't want to play Kh-Qd-4h-2c from middle position. However, in the same game, after everyone but the blinds had folded, you might want to raise with Kh-Qd-4h-2c if you were on the button. (Or you might not, depending on who had posted the blinds).


Ray Zee gives excellent advice on starting hands in his book High-Low-Split Poker . There is no point count system, but then you don't need one. Really.


Buzz