75-150 stud: Help me with this hand!

75-150 stud, 8-handed.


3rd street:


Seat 3 brings it in, seat 4 folds, seat 5 calls with the Qh showing (1 heart and no queens were out on 3rd street), I'm in seat 6 and raise with (Kh7h)Ks. Everyone else folds to seat 5, who calls.


Seat 5 is a very loose player on 3rd street, probably playing at least 2/3 of his hands, but actually plays fairly well after that. He is a player with whom I had only played a couple times before.


4th street:


Him: (xx)QhQd


Me: (Kh7h)KsQs


He bets the full bet ($150) and I call.


I don't normally like calling against a paired doorcard when I'm heads up on 4th street with only one pair, but every deciding factor seemed to be leaning in my favor in this case. If he had had a lower doorcard I may have considered folding but the fact that if he had queens to start he probably would have raised on 3rd street, combined with the fact that I had a queen in my hand made this an easy call in my opinion. (Although my having one of his queens makes my hand a bit worse if he happens to have a buried pair.)


I think a case could be made for raising, but he doesn't seem to be the type of player who would fold to a raise in this spot, and I didn't really see another point in raising, at least not yet.


5th street:


Him: (xx)QhQd7d


Me: (Kh7h)KsQsQc


I bet and he calls. Fairly straightforward.


6th street:


Him: (xx)QhQd7d7s


Me: (Kh7h)KsQsQc4h


He bets and I call.


His bet here surprised and confused me. It's hard to put him on a 7 in the hole considering that he started with a queen and I have the 7 that is suited with his queen doorcard as my holecard, but it is still possible considering he does play alot of starting hands.


Raising here didn't make sense just because I didn't want to have to fold to a reraise. If I raise and fold to a reraise it costs me 2 bets and I don't see a river card. If I call now I get to see the river and can call for a total of 2 bets (and I have a chance of improving.)


Folding was an option because his bet should tell me he can beat kings up, but I thought a hand he was likely to have was a flush draw with the 2 pair, so I think I had to call here.


River:


I catch a king to make kings full. He bets out, I raise, and he reraises. What now? Fold? Call? Reraise?

Re-raise until you are convinced he has aces full of queens, then call.

How many reraises would he have to put in before you were convinced he had aces full? Calling might be a better option.

Your opponent's play doesn't suggest he started with Aces in the hole. Ohterwise, you could have expected a 3rd street raise and re-raise if he did. I also would have expected a re-raise on fifth street.


Were any Aces exposed on third street?


In order for him to have Aces full, he would have had to slow play his Aces an then caught the perfect card on the river.

He cannot have quad Queens nor 7s nor have a straight flush. You can only be beat by AcesFull. Which is unlikely due to his 3rd street play.


On the other hand, what CAN he have? He MAY have bet AcesUp on the end figuring to beat KsUp, and he may be 3-bet bluffing figuring you'll fold your apparent flush or QsUp.


So he's either perfect in the hole or making a mistake or screwy play. I'd lay more than 2:1 in favor of a mistake.


Raise.


- Louie

Action on the river- "I catch a king to make kings full. He bets out, I raise, and he reraises. What now? Fold? Call? Reraise?"


"How many reraises would he have to put in before you were convinced he had aces full? Calling might be a better option"


Well, if he is already convinced after the first one, it's time to call already. All I know is that the opponent was described as very loose and could easily have made his flush or case 7 on the river and be overplaying it IMO. But your point is well taken. Putting in more than one re-raise yourself is then likely overplaying your kings full as well

This really depends on who the other player is. With most of the players in that game, a reraise would be correct, but there are a couple (Wing, Mike W.) that I would just call.

You say .. "Seat 5 is a very loose player on 3rd street, probably playing at least 2/3 of his hands, but actually plays fairly well after that."


So he's probably not making a mistake or screwy play ..


Is it a real tight game? If so, is Seat 5 trying to get some action on a hidden pair of aces because if he raises his queen on 3rd street all the rocks are gonna drop.


IMO - What to do here depends alot on the type of game you're in.

It is anything but a tight game, in fact, this hand was somewhat unusual in that only 2 people saw 4th street. This game always plays fairly loose in this respect.

Ad-Kd could be a possible holding as with hidden Aces in the game you described he would have raised in the 95% of the cases.


A small-medium pair like 4-4 or 5-5 could be the case. His bet on 6th street meant he didn't want to give you a free-card if you were with 4 flush (Ks-Qs exposed in your board)and even if he thought you had the King in the hole he felt to be in a quite good shape with his three double pairs (he cannot know you have a third 7 in the hole).


Hence, he could have something like (Ad-Kd)QhQd7d7h hitting a 5th diamond on the river or, with more more probability, (4-4)QQ77--river 4 or another small hidden pair filled on the river.


As many posters suggested, pocket Aces are out of order.


RERAISE!


Marco


By the way, where did you spread this game?

Another slant: just call. Here's my thinking: At worst, you lose one bet (your raise, his call if he doesn't have aces). At best you save two bets (your raise, his re-raise if he does).


Since you're definitely not folding at this point, we're assuming you saw no aces on 3rd street, you have no clear read on this player, it's a diabolical but possible way for him to have played aces.

I would have to reraise here.


He obviously can't have 4Q's or 4 7's and can only beat you with A's full. His play doesn't indicate Ace's at all. You thought he didn't have Q's at the start because he would raise coming in. I would think he would also raise with buried aces because it still represents Q's to you. I think people are much more likely to limp with a much smaller door card when they have A's in the hole because a raise screams big buried pair.


He pairs his door card and you catch a straight flush card. He bets you call. He has to put you on either a pair of K's or a straight/flush draw. You catch the case Q and bet and call. Why wouldn't he reraise here with a buried pair of Aces? If you have 2 pair you are going to check and call the river and if you were on a flush draw he forces you to pay more to catch.


On 6th, he has to bet. If he gets raised, he figures you for a higher 2 pair and if he gets called he can put you on a probable draw. He can't give you a free card and if he does have 2 pair and a flush draw, he has redraws.


On the river, I would have guessed he made his AQ flush or more likely 7's full. Your raise might indicate to him a flush. I realize that you probably wouldn't raise with a flush here because you will only be called by a hand that can beat you, but how deep does his thinking go.


He thinks you think he has either a flush or 7's full, would he reraise hoping that you would throw away a King high flush to a reraise and if that was the case would he reraise with something like A's up if he caught an Ace of spades on the river. If not, he may still put you on a flush yourself, K high or AKQ high, and he is reraising with 7's full.


Of all the possibilities, I think A's full is the least likely by the play of the hand and would reraise, If he reraises again, I would call.

Casino AZ...

So, as most of you suggested, I reraised him, and he reraised me back. Of course he shows aces full and takes the pot.


I was somewhat surprised how many of you thought my 2nd river raise was the correct way to go. I felt like it was the wrong play after I did it but most people I've talked to both here and in "real life" said they would have put that raise in.


So who knows...

it would look like both of you were more likely to have flushes than aces and kings full so a raise back would be in order here. any time you smaell a rat its wise to slow down though and that may be the case here.

Dear Gasper,

your analysis was excellent.


SITTING Bull