Omaha/8: calling with JJ62 from the button

I think this one of the more interesting marginal situations in Omaha. Here's specifically what I'm describing:


- Relatively tame 20-40 Omaha 8 or better game at the Bellagio - Unraised pot, 6 people already in - I'm either on the button or in very late position - Twice in one day I fold a high pair with nothing else to go with it and then watch my high card come on the flop. In both cases, no low comes, the board pairs up and I'm watching someone else scoop a rather large pot with a much lesser had than I would've made


In the first case, I had JJ62 (with one suited J), in the second case, QQ93 (nothing suited). While these hands are a bit different, the only part that really matters for this question is the high pair (with six people in, if the Q or J doesn't come, this hand is worthless).


So the question is - is it worth calling a small bet in late position with a hand like that? Are the implied odds good enough? I'm guessing that the things to consider are:


- I'm getting 7 to 1 odds on my small bet and I have about 1 in 8 chance of flopping my J - Lots of people in is quite likely to mean that there's plenty low cards out and middle cards could come. That makes it likely that a flop comes ragged and if it comes with a J I get to see a cheap card or two


The flipside of this is that playing that kind of a hand in a mid-limit game is just a bad idea period because it opens the door to playing plenty other bad hands...


Thoughts?

While flopping a set in Holdem may win near 80% of the time, its MUCH worse at Omaha, and even MUCH MORE worse at O8. While at Holdem you may need 10:1 (including implied odds) to call, I would GUESS you need about 20:1 for AA or KK in O8.


The smaller the pair the worse it gets. QQ93 is quite a bit better than JJ62 since QsFull is the nuts more often than JsFull, and your weak straight potential is better than 62 (I think).


When you see your trash hand win, its better to think "Well, this experience sure would entice the suckers to play trash" (and in fact it does) instead of "Well, I wish I had played that trash". Its a little mind trick, but it makes you think you actually GAINED some EV when your hand accidentally wins and you manage to brush it off.


- Louie

I also think QQ93 is considerably better than JJ62, since if you fill up with jacks it makes it more likely that there is a low on board since your other two cards are low cards. A board with a queen and nine on it is more likely to give someone a worse hand against you also (a straight).