Stud Jamming

Routine check-up.


Low limit on line, 7-handed, ante is 1/8 a small bet, bring-in is 1/2 a small bet.


3rd: I hold (8h9h)Ah. 4s brings it in. Kc folds. 6c calls. I complete. 8s raises. 4s (bring-in) calls. 6c calls. I 3-bet. All call.


nb: no hearts out, pair outs good (one 8), two straight clean.


4th:


(x x) 4s Kd


(x x) 6c Ks


(8h 9h) Ah Jh [ hero ]


(x x) 8s 6s


I bet. 8s raises. both call. I 3-bet. All call.


nb: no hearts, pair outs good, 3 gut-straight clean.


5th:


(x x) 4s Kd 7d


(x x) 6c Ks 8d


(8h 9h) Ah Jh 5s [ hero ]


(x x) 8s 6s 4c


I bet. 8s raises. 4s folds. 6c raises all in. We both call.


nb: still no hearts or aces. lost some outs. 9 of 30 unexposed are hearts.


No action on 6th or 7th as me and 8s check it down.


final boards:


(5c 7c 9c) 6c Ks 8d Ac [ winner club flush ]


(8h 9h Tc) Ah Jh 5s 9s [ hero ]


(Ts Th Kh) 8s 6s 4c 9d


1. Is 3rd & 4th automatic? 2. Was this completely routine? 3. I'm getting great value on every dollar that went into this pot, right?

You may be one of the favorites on 3rd because of the weak hands trailing along, but don't get too cute with your live 3-flush with one overcard. Otherwise you got good value only because the TT was raising far too often. Usually against that many raises, you are against a much better hand.


Golly, TT sure like HIS hand, no? Unless he's a known maniac I suspect you've got some tell.


- Louie

When I 3-bet on 3rd I had 2 live over cards to the remaining players. Does it make a difference? With the blind and ante structure this is more like a bigger game, right?


Who knows what happened to (TT)8. I gather he tried to isolate me a couple of times. I guess I think he's the fish, and the feeling is mutual.

I'm not sure I would commit that much to the pot on a drawing hand. Yes, I want to get people tied to the pot, but your raise allowed the player to your left to reraise, a potentially devastating move to isolate you with a pair. Had the other players folded, you would not have gotten the money you needed in the pot to justify chasing a flush. But once you've tied players to the pot, what is the purpose of your bets and raises on the come except to build the pot if you should make your hand? I think you are in danger of getting too greedy, losing a lot of money on an unmade hand, and getting a lot of callers who may be calling with a strong hand. I guess I just play a little more conservatively in a low limit game knowing that I generally want people to fold when I bet.

I typically wait to make a hand to jam, but on 4th street I had 9/34 flush outs to the best hand with 3 cards to come (as well as straight outs and maybe pair outs) and three callers -- I have to be making money when people are feeding the pot along with me. If the field were limited on 4th (kind of unlikely), I still like my hand. In fact, I think it might be just as well for my hand because I can make a weaker hand and win. One thing to think about is that often low limits the ante is 1/16 a SB and the bring-in 1/4 a SB, so it's never about being willing to knock people out even when you are currently second best.


When you look at the cards that were actually out (maybe that's a complete fluke) -- I was in heaven. The club draw that made it was very weak (4 clubs out on 4th!) -- that's the hand that went all in with a gut-shot (which was a 2-outer). The pocket tens were just being silly...


Anyway, thanks for your thoughts.

Good Good , they put you on aces and they were wrong. John..

Maybe you're being sarcastic, I don't know. This is basically right out of the S&M book, although there with the caveat that it doesn't typically apply to low limit because of the structure -- given the structure of this game I was curious if I was being maniacal or there was great value to me in all the money I and others put in the pot -- and simultaneously value in the prospect of limiting the field while not holding the best hand...

1. I would three bet on third street here also.


2. on fourth street i would definitely reraise. with all of the hearts live there is a good chance that you will win a big pot and everyone else has some dead cards on the board. the raiser does not have trips and an 8 and a 6 are out. so you are in good shape if he has a medium pair in the hole and is overplaying. What else could he have? he doesnt have KK unless he is a maniac since his hand is dead, and if he has QQ-TT (The worst pair he could have is probably 77 with a straightflush kicker)then you are a favorite with your overcard(two if he has TT or worse) since his board cards are both out.


3. The bet on fifth street is automatic. On sixth street it is Ok to take a free card unless you think that a bet might allow you to make a play on the river.


Sometimes it just doesnt work out but I would have played it the same way beofre sixth street.


Pat

No sarcasam,


I see no fault in your play. Your raise and subsequent reraise on 3rd st suggested Aces. If you made the flush on 5th st you would likely get action from 1 pair and srt8 draws which is very good. If you paired on board on 4th or 5th then you will likely lose opponents with 1 pair which is good.


Overall a very good play but if you do this often then expect to go through some wicked streaks when things don't work out. John..

I guess my thought is that you didn't need to reraise on third street; a call would have served your purpose of getting people tied to the pot and your third bet served no good purpose. In my opintion, our continued betting on the come was ill-advised. Even though you may have been drawing to the best hand, you didn't have a hand yet; and some of the hands you say you were drawing two not only didn't materialize, they weren't the nuts.


I'm not saying to only draw to the nuts. What I'm saying is to conserve your capital for when you have a winning hand, and to make sure you have a good reason for betting and raising.


I do appreciate you comments, too.

I have to disagree. First, you don't need to be that tricking in low limit. Second, while the deception may be helpful, you really don't want people to fold here, and representing aces may just do that. Third, I just don't believe in betting to heavily on the come, because you're probably reraising against a made hand. Whenever you do that, you are a dog. You want the other player to make mistakes, such as give you that free card. That's how you make your hands and save money when you don't. Too much gambling for me.

Rich. Patrick makes a point explicit that had bearing on my decision making. On 4th, it is difficult to put anybody on a scary hand, and by 5th it is, frankly, impossible. While the 3rd street play may make what was shown down surprising, after 5th it is not the least surprising. On 4th, I'm getting way more than my fair share. By 5th, I'm no longer on the come, even though I haven't made any kind of hand, I'm the favourite, a third of the deck puts me out of reach, and a sixth (half in total) puts me way ahead with a monster redraw -- but I'm not getting great value with only one caller, and, of course, I still need to make a hand. As for 3-betting 3rd street, that is automatic for good players (not that I am one) -- and not something that I do regularly.