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View Full Version : Big beat rolled up...


08-31-2002, 11:20 AM
Stopped at Foxwoods for about four hours on way to Cape Cod Thursday and decided to sit a little $1-3, see how it went, and maybe move to $2-4 he, $1-5 stud or even try $5-10.


Three and a half hours later, I was still at the very loose, very beatable $1-3 table, down about $55 of my $90 buy in, looking at rolled fives. A lot of interesting hands, including several bad beats, got me to this point. I will probably post several for comments.


In this one, I adhered to my $1-3 strategy of playing very strong hands slow and trappy. I want to stress I would have played this hand differently in a more aggressive $1-5 game. Here's how it went:


(x-x) 4 brings it in

(x-x) 5 folds

two others with nothing relevant fold

(x-x) 7 raises to $4

two others fold to me

(5-5) 5 I just call


Suits are not relevant.


I considered raising here, but the raiser was a competent but very predictable player -- his raise was almost certainly a big pocket pair or possibly split sevens with a big kicker. If I re-raised and he didn't have aces, he was capable of dropping here. The bring in was a very loose weak player who I assumed would fold -- but if she was thinking of calling, I didn't want to change her mind.


(x-x) 4 J

(x-x) 7 10

(5-5) 5 A


Ace made me first to bet and I checked, planning to checkraise. But it was checked around.


(x-x) 4 J 4

(x-x) 7 10 7

(5-5) 5 A A


I bet, fours raise, sevens call, I reraise, both call.


I'm full and am almost surely winning proudly here. The fairly obvious trip fours don't have me worried, as my house is higher. The sevens do have me worried, but I'm thinking it's more likely two pair. When he called my reraise, this player grumbled "I'm not going anywhere" -- which I took as a crying call. Even if he has trips, he may not fill. Of course, I can also improve to aces full (neither of the other aces had been seen).


(x-x) 4 Q 4 6

(x-x) 7 10 7 Q

(5-5) 5 A A K


I bet, fours call, sevens raise. I have to put him on having filled here. I'm thinking he probably had the trip sevens and a queen down. I call fours call.


River I catch the case four, check it's checked around(!). Fours show trips (stared with fours and a king kicker), sevens show queens full. He'd had two pair going into sixth street.


In analyzing this hand, had I reraised on third, I may have folded the bring in. Had I then bet on fourth when I caught my ace, I may have folded the unimproved queeens. So I could have put in three bbs to possibly win two bbs.


But I like how I played it. When the queens up called two bbs on fifth, there was $19 in the pot. So he was getting about 3-1 odds on a 10-1 draw (one queen, two sevens). The fours were drawing to one out (case 4) or running kings. I also had a redraw to aces full that could beat their draws.


The way I played it, I put in 6 bbs to build a pot of 18 bbs in a no ante game.


Comments/criticisms much appreciated.


Larry -- I'm still mulling over your post. Thanks, good stuff.

08-31-2002, 03:07 PM
game! U simply had to do a little gambling in this game.

One more reason Y U should take some shots at the 5-10. U can play your small roll up sets more aggressively. At least there is some ante money to fight for and U won't be given your opponents too many shots at making over sets on U.


Happy pokering and thanks!

Sitting Bull

Ps U played the hand well!

08-31-2002, 03:20 PM
Actually, it was a pretty loose game -- but pretty passive with lots of calling or $1 raises on a typical third street.

08-31-2002, 04:57 PM
with small or medium rolled up hands IN A LOOSE GAME is to play them aggressively from the "get-go"--3rd Str.

The reasons are(1) U will obtain some action on your hand and (2) your hand is vulnerable to overpairs.Hence, U want to discourage too many overpairs from tagging along.

Happy pokering,

Sitting Bull

08-31-2002, 05:04 PM
I agree, but remember that when the action on this hand came to me six players had folded with only the bring in still to act behind me. I thought I'd probably be head up or have at most two callers and didn't want to "tell" the initial raiser that I had either pocket aces or trips by reraising here.

08-31-2002, 08:37 PM
it's better to win a "spoon" then to lose a "shovel"! (LOL)

Sitting Bull

08-31-2002, 11:17 PM
Excellent point. Sklansky has a very perceptive point about low limits -- that you're not looking to push small advantages (since your opponents aren't aware enough to fold) but to keep your powder dry for big ones. I think my advantage here was big enough to justify the risk, but I simply haven't played enough to know for sure. I know that many winning low limit players like yourself would probably have reraised on third and been happy to take a small pot either there or on fourth. My play here feels right to me, considering how much edge I had. But it sure didn't work out too well.

08-31-2002, 11:40 PM
MRB,


Once it is raised to you.. I would re-raise here, especially with a five showing, and a five being folded. Rarely at these limits, will an opponent put you on rolled fives here..and if they have a big hand they are going to the end with it and you will get payed off nicely.


I would only limp with that hand in an earlier position and/or in a shorthanded contested spot.


CJ


P.S. - Checking fourth street was not a good idea.

08-31-2002, 11:55 PM
This is why I posted this. CJ, I'm last in on third, everyone has folded to me. The player who raised is telling me he's got a big pair. Remember, he was an aware, tight although predictable player. He's been playing with me for awhile, and has seen that I am also rather tight. If I reraise, he will put me on aces or maybe kings and will consider trips, since my upcard is small. Unless he's dealt rolled, too, I'm winning big here. Do I really want to set him up to fold fourth? Not to mention, a reraise might have knocked out the bring in, who wound up providing extra value by making a bad call for one bet.


I agree, checking fourth was a mistake. My thinking was to checkraise to make it two cold to the bring in and knock her out, while tying on the other opponent to calling me down.

09-01-2002, 12:21 AM
MRB,


Trust me here, AS THE SITUATION IS DESCRIBED, you will make more money by re-raising in this instance.


If it WASN'T raised into you,then a slowplay is a better option. ( Although if it's a really loose table, I'm going to let the pounding begin /images/smile.gif )


Sincerely,


CJ

09-01-2002, 10:16 PM
CJ, after running a simulation, here's my analysis:


I will win about 73% of the time from third street. So, slowplaying as I did, about three times I win $36, one time I lose $22 for an EV of $86.

(Rake is figured in to my calculations)


Playing fast, if we assume the bring in will fold and the queens will stay but fold on fourth, I will win $7 four times for an EV of $28.


If we assume the bring in and the queens stay but both fold on fourth, I will win $10 four times for an EV of $39.


If we assume the bring in will stay on third but fold fourth and the queens stay to the end (the best fast play scenario), I win about 86% of the time. So I win $14 8.5 times (I've assumed he folds the river two thirds of the time) and I lose $19 1.5 times, for an EV of $90.50.


In short, the very best fast play scenario is only slighly better than slowplaying. And the others are much worse.

09-02-2002, 11:03 AM
Correction to EV, forgot to divide my totals by trials:
First scenario: EV $21.5
Second scenario: EV $7
Third scenario: EV $9.75
Fourth scenario: EV $9

This seems to me to make an even stronger case for slowplaying.

sandsmarc
09-05-2002, 12:38 AM
Save yourself a lot of time and trouble. Small trips are not that great a hand. Play 'em fast; at low limits you'll get enough callers over the long haul. You can run all the simulations you want, but getting caught with your pants down on the river after a slow play is bad for your table image and long term prospects. Opportunities to be aggressive with the goods are rare enough, don't waste them.