Proper VP$IP Shorthanded & Bison's Autorate

[banditdad]

I have about 4000 games at Absolute 6 table .50/1.00. PT show me as having a VP$IP of 26.08 in those games. Is this too loose? When I did Bison's autorate on myself I came up as a frowny face semi-loose aggressive passive at AP and Tight Aggresive Neutral for the sites where I play full ring games. So it got me wondering.

[Vern]

Check out this post. (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Number=1060670&page=&view=&s b=5&o=)

[banditdad]

Will this override the ratings I have set up for full games? Do I need to set up a different database for short Handed play?

[kiddo]

26 is pretty high, but not very high, it depends on your aggressivness. Good players are normally between 17-23. If other players are very loose, its ok limping with a lot but normally u should raise more then 50% of your hands if its SH and almost never coldcall. (3bet is ok)

[Mr. Graff]

[ QUOTE ]
26 is pretty high, but not very high, it depends on your aggressivness. Good players are normally between 17-23. If other players are very loose, its ok limping with a lot but normally u should raise more then 50% of your hands if its SH and almost never coldcall. (3bet is ok)

[/ QUOTE ]

Why is 3-betting superior to cold calling? I've often seen people recommend 3-betting a hand like 88 in the SB but I don't understand the reason for it. Seems to me like an awfully difficult hand to play out of position and I hate to put another raise in (which may even get reraised by a bigger pair).

[joker122]

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Seems to me like an awfully difficult hand to play out of position

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Not if you 3bet.

[Mr. Graff]

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Seems to me like an awfully difficult hand to play out of position

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Not if you 3bet.

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Because you gain the initiative? I don't like it because you are more or less forced to bet the rest of the hand with no information and without hitting most of the time but I'm still a SH novice so I may overlook the obvious advantage here. Can I ask why 3-betting is better than cold calling in this situation?

[kiddo]

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Because you gain the initiative? I don't like it because you are more or less forced to bet the rest of the hand with no information

[/ QUOTE ]

Yep, the only good reason raising a pair is that u think are lower then both of the raisers cars (like 88 against KJ or...) is that u want to make him fold if he dont hit the flop, which he doesnt 2/3. U are totally right, its very hard playing theses middle pair and win against a raiser. But if u want to do it, u have to raise, because in showdown poker u are 50-50 against any hand holding 2 cards higher than your pair. If he folds flop or turn if he dont hit, well, then u are winning with a pair (and that is any pair) against a raiser (u are of course losing againt higher pairs but that is not to often).

If a hand like 88 is the lowest hand u are raising with, then that hand is going to get more respect then if they knew u had 88 because normally u 3bet a much better hand.

Only calling with middle pair is bad because u cant know if they are hitting, u want it headsup and u want to be the one betting.

SH u want to win the pots when noone hits flop, and best way to do this is raising preflop, then u are the one that will bet flop and they are the ones folding if they dont hit.

[joker122]

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Because you gain the initiative?

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This, to get it heads up, and the other reasons kiddo listed.

I don't 3bet every time. I'm usually doing it when I think I can get it heads up or at least 3 handed. If they are already multiple people entered in the pot I'll just call.

[Mr. Graff]

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Because you gain the initiative? I don't like it because you are more or less forced to bet the rest of the hand with no information

[/ QUOTE ]

Yep, the only good reason raising a pair is that u think are lower then both of the raisers cars (like 88 against KJ or...) is that u want to make him fold if he dont hit the flop, which he doesnt 2/3. U are totally right, its very hard playing theses middle pair and win against a raiser. But if u want to do it, u have to raise, because in showdown poker u are 50-50 against any hand holding 2 cards higher than your pair. If he folds flop or turn if he dont hit, well, then u are winning with a pair (and that is any pair) against a raiser (u are of course losing againt higher pairs but that is not to often).

If a hand like 88 is the lowest hand u are raising with, then that hand is going to get more respect then if they knew u had 88 because normally u 3bet a much better hand.

Only calling with middle pair is bad because u cant know if they are hitting, u want it headsup and u want to be the one betting.

SH u want to win the pots when noone hits flop, and best way to do this is raising preflop, then u are the one that will bet flop and they are the ones folding if they dont hit.

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't know what happened to my reply, but I'll try again:

I see that the point is there is more pressure on the other guy to hit the flop than for you to hit and that this sort of play is best heads up. This is often not the case in 1/2, the level I play at - geeting people to fold is tough!

Would it change the situation much if there was one cold caller and I could be reasonably sure the BB would fold, making it 3-way (maybe 4-way)? Would you still push after the flop?

One weakness I see with this play heads up is if the other guy raises me on the flop after I lead out it would be hard for me to continue (if I don't hit) even when I have a hunch he is just testing my bet. How would you deal with this situation in general? Or is it too flop dependant to say anything about?

[Peter_rus]

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Why is 3-betting superior to cold calling?

[/ QUOTE ]

Because. /images/graemlins/smirk.gif