tournament books??

[pratt]

What are some of the best books on tournament play? Thanks in advance. /images/graemlins/spade.gif /images/graemlins/club.gif

[MEbenhoe]

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What are some of the best books on tournament play? Thanks in advance. /images/graemlins/spade.gif /images/graemlins/club.gif

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Tournament Poker for Advanced Players by David Sklansky gets a good amount of praise. I've also heard that the book Championship NL Hold em by Cloutier and McEvoy if applied to tournament play rather than cash game play can be a good book (I have not read this book though so I can only go off of what I've heard). Hope that helps.

[DrPhysic]

Matt,
Since the book was written by TJ (with comments by mcevoy), and he is fundamentally a tournament player, it is very much about tournament play. Despite some less than glowing reviews on this site, possibly because it is not a 2+2 book, possibly because it has much "poker color" and not much "here's what you do next" instruction, I liked it and felt it helped. This book was rated highest of all TJ's books by MM as I remember (but not a 10, rated a 6).

Besides the two books mentioned, I have felt that Zen and the Art of Poker, which is a psychology book not a tournament play book, was very applicable to tournament play.

The recent comments by MM about the quality of material in print about tournament NLHE are probably right, but we take what we can get. Hopefully, D. Harrington's book will improve the situation.

Doc

[Rudbaeck]

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Matt,
Since the book was written by TJ (with comments by mcevoy), and he is fundamentally a tournament player, it is very much about tournament play. Despite some less than glowing reviews on this site, possibly because it is not a 2+2 book, possibly because it has much "poker color" and not much "here's what you do next" instruction, I liked it and felt it helped. This book was rated highest of all TJ's books by MM as I remember (but not a 10, rated a 6).

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It was somewhat fun to read, but only marginally more helpful to my game than Alvarez The Biggest Game in Town was... /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Tom Bayes]

IMHO, the tournament literature is not nearly as good as the ring game literature. I feel that TPFAP is Sklansky's weakest book (not nearly as strong as TOP or HEFAP or even Sklansky on Poker), although a serious tournament player should read it even if you don't agree with everything in it because many of your opponents have read it. The biggest concept in the book is the Gap concept, which seemed fairly self-evident to me. Too much space is wasted on stuff like the "System", which no serious player would ever use and only generates silly threads when people try it on $5 SNGs and get killed. Much of the advice seems a bit dated in that it assumes most of your opponents are tight. Little advice for dealing with LAGs is given.

For a similar reason, you should probably read the McEvoy/TJ Cloutier book despite its weaknesses (rambling style, lack of mathematical justification for anything, some overly weak-tight advice). I think there is some good advice in this book, although I know many do not rate this book at all. McEvoy's Tournament Poker book is also worth a read (or at least a skimming at the bookstore).

Actually, what is as good as any of the books is to search the forum for some old posts. Fossilman's posts in particular are useful.

Some issues I would like to see addressed better in future tournament books are:
(1) Dealing with LAGs
(2) How to play a small stack (i.e. when are you in push-or-fold mode)
(3) How to play a large stack
(4) More on the pot odds/mathematics in deciding when to call all-in bets.

[DrPhysic]

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IMHO, the tournament literature is not nearly as good as the ring game literature.

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If you want a great book on LIMIT RING TABLE (Insert favorite game), there are plenty on 2+2 and other sources.

Those of us that play NL have a much more limited literature to learn from, and tournament is even worse. So we pick up tidbits from whatever sources are out there, and try to sort the wheat from the chaff. Which is why I recommend TJ's book. It does have some good concepts about NL tourn play, if you are willing to dig to find them.

If you happen to be one of those poor souls that play anything but Hold'em you are just out of luck completely. Seen any good books recently on 7card tournaments, or Omaha8 PotLimit Tournaments? (Although I admit, that learning to play tournament poker well is possibly independent of what game we are talking about.)

Hellmuth looked like he really knew what he was doing playing Blind Man's Bluff on ESPN. Maybe he can write us a BMB No Limit Tournament book.

IMO, Hellmuth is a great reader of people. Which is not something that is easy to teach (if it can be taught at all.) Which is why I along with most others, have not much use for his book. He can't teach what he does that is so successful. (and with that many bracelets, he certainly is successful.)

Seriously, Your point that the literature stinks is absolutely correct, and the suggestions you made are good ones.

The real source of this problem is probably that limit ring table hold'em is a game that is more structured (like blackjack), therefore more given to mathematical analysis and easier to write a book about that purports to teach somebody how to play this game.

No Limit in general and NLHE is more about the betting and about playing the other player. And tournament is more about knowing when to survive, and when to switch gears from TAG to LAG and back.
Which is why it is hard to write about.
And which is why your suggestions of areas that lend themselves to mathematical analysis are right on.
And why I keep referring people to Zen, POP, and ITPM as good books on tournament NLHE.

I wonder where Harrington's book will fall within the spectrum of mathematical analysis vs the psychology of betting, playing the player, and in tournaments when to survive vs becoming more agressive to build a stack? And whether the really good players will read it, analyze the resulting new playing habit of most of the rest of us, and obsolete it by changing strategy accordingly?

Just some thoughts.

Doc

[Mason Malmuth]

Hi Dr...
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And whether the really good players will read it,

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My feedback is that the really good tournament players are not real happy about the Dan Harrington books coming out.

Best wishes,
Mason

[DrPhysic]

That would be an encouraging development for the those of us who would like to learn to be in that category.

Doc

[paulish]

lol MM that's always the best marketing line for a new book. But I'll take you're word for it. I'm waiting for my new bible /images/graemlins/cool.gif