1 gapper straight

[craiga_uk]

After having qualified for the $100+$9 Carribean tournament on William Hill, from my $5 satellite, I was pretty pleased.
I'd been playing well until I walked straight into this 1 gapper straight, and got near busted.

(Convertor doesn't support Crypto skins, so here's the history):

Game #156512413: Texas Hold'em No Limit (15/30) - 2004/10/30 - 00:25:15 (GMT)
Table "CARIBBEAN 164245 - 3" Seat 7 is the button.
Seat 1: bazzadaz sits out
Seat 2: Dpenly (1535 in chips)
Seat 3: LaMoPa (1610 in chips)
Seat 4: Molsson (1000 in chips)
Seat 5: Peterpihl (2005 in chips)
Seat 6: Joh150435 (1790 in chips)
Seat 7: Craiga_uk (1590 in chips)
Seat 9: snakeman sits out
Seat 10: memtam sits out
snakeman: posts small blind 15
snakeman: folds
snakeman sits back
memtam: posts big blind 30
memtam: folds
memtam sits back
----- HOLE CARDS -----
dealt to Craiga_uk [Td Th]
bazzadaz: folds
bazzadaz sits back
Dpenly: folds
LaMoPa: folds
Molsson: folds
Peterpihl: calls 30
Joh150435: raises to 60
Craiga_uk: calls 60
Peterpihl: calls 30
----- FLOP ----- [Jc 5d 8h]
Peterpihl: checks
Joh150435: bets 30
Craiga_uk: calls 30
Peterpihl: calls 30
----- TURN ----- [Jc 5d 8h][Tc]
Peterpihl: checks
Joh150435: bets 30
Craiga_uk: raises to 120
Peterpihl: calls 120
Joh150435: folds
----- RIVER ----- [Jc 5d 8h Tc][4s]
Peterpihl: checks
Craiga_uk: bets 600
Peterpihl: raises to 1200
Craiga_uk: calls 600
----- SHOW DOWN -----
Peterpihl: shows [7h 9h] (A Straight, Jack high)
Craiga_uk: mucks hand
Peterpihl collected 2985 from Main pot
----- SUMMARY -----
Total pot 2985 Main pot 2985 | Rake 0
Board [Jc 5d 8h Tc 4s]
Seat 1: bazzadaz folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: Dpenly folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: LaMoPa folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: Molsson folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: Peterpihl showed [7h 9h] and won (2985) with A Straight, Jack high
Seat 6: Joh150435 folded on the Turn
Seat 7: Craiga_uk (button) mucked
Seat 9: snakeman (small blind) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 10: memtam (big blind) folded before Flop (didn't bet)


I'd pretty much put the guy on a pair of jacks - possibly J9. I didn't want to overbet the turn as I wanted to hit him on the river if a non scary card hit - not a J/7/Q
So, I did - and he raised me - oh oh... Is he bluffing - I don't know, but I couldn't let go of my tens...

I didn't think the guy would play those cards from that position, but I hadn't seen many of his hands shown.

How would you have played it?

[adanthar]

I can't figure out whether your PF play, your flop play, your turn play or your river overbet was worse, so I'm going to go with 'you couldn't possibly have misplayed this hand more than you did'. Oh, and this is a bad beat post, although you let him do it about three times over.

Read every post on the first page and then come back to this thread.

edit: Okay, I feel bad about not posting any constructive advice, so let's start here:

The SB and BB are both out and the CO minraises. Instead of reraising, you call, presumably for set value. Given the circumstances this is a clear reraise.

The CO then minbets the flop. RAISE HERE. You don't want the third guy behind you calling this, but if he does at least you know he has a jack and can safely fold. Of course, you let the CO's overcard(s) hang around another street for 30 chips...

...and catch your miracle ten, which, coincidentally, puts two separate draws on the board. So, naturally, you raise it to a whopping 1/3 of the pot.

You pretty much deserved to get sucked out on by J9, T9 etc. here, but since the river was innocent, you overbet it ensuring that every possible hand that doesn't beat you makes a quick fold.

Good job. You seriously misplayed it badly on every street.

[craiga_uk]

Hi,

Thanks for your comments. I didn't mean to post a bad beat story. I was looking for advice/criticism like I received.

Ok, here are a few things that I'm seriously struggling with:

[ QUOTE ]
The SB and BB are both out and the CO minraises. Instead of reraising, you call, presumably for set value. Given the circumstances this is a clear reraise.

[/ QUOTE ]

Correct. I called for set value.
Why was this wrong? Because there were not enough people in the hand?
So, what was the play here - re-raise (2x the pot?) and fold to a strong re-raise?

[ QUOTE ]
The CO then minbets the flop. RAISE HERE. You don't want the third guy behind you calling this, but if he does at least you know he has a jack and can safely fold. Of course, you let the CO's overcard(s) hang around another street for 30 chips

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok, I can certainly see the awful play here. I played it to limp and see the next card for cheap. I would probably have folded to a large raise from CO. I didn't think about re-raising myself.

[ QUOTE ]
So, naturally, you raise it to a whopping 1/3 of the pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was still 'slowplaying' this - I didn't want to overbet it as I didn't think the guy was on a hand and I didn't want to scare him out of the pot.
Which, coincidentally, seems to have been the big problem. I should have let these guys draw.

This is where I stuggle - if I bet big then people always tell me I shouldn't come out firing so much as I'm loosing value. But when I try and play smart, I play stupid sh*t like this.

I'm happy to admit I'm a very green novice at poker, I'm learning - and this stuff really helps. I feel I'm still missing the understanding of value, etc... and I'm paying off too many people by my poor play.

[ QUOTE ]
Good job. You seriously misplayed it badly on every street.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yup. Thanks for the feedback though. I'll try and play it better next time.

Craig

[zaxx19]

HEY HEY I LIKES PAIRS PREFLOP

HEY HEY THE REASON I LIKES PAIRS PREFLOP IS BC IT MAKES SETS ON FLOP

HEY HEY HEY WHENS I MISS FLOPS FOR MY SET I LIKES TO FOLD USUALLY

HEY HEY WHEN A TOKEN BET IS MADE ON THE FLOP AND I KNOW(FROM PREFLOP PLAY OR JUST COMMON SENSE) THAT IF MY CARD HITS IT WILL NOT MAKE A HAND THAT WILL BEAT MY SET IF ITS MADE MAYBE IZ CALL

HEY HEY HEY WHEN A J AND A 9 OR 8 OR Q (ANY COMBINATION OF THE 4 HIT WITHOUT HITTING MY 10 IZ STOP TRYING TO HIT MY SETS

THIS IS NOT MEANT TO BE INSULTING BUT THE WORST HAND IN POKER IS ALWAYS THE 2ND BEST ONE AND WHEN THOSE TYPE OF FLOPS COME TOO A PAIR OF 10'S YOUR IN BIG DANGER OF MAKING A 2ND BEST HAND ....

AS FOR YOUR SLOW-PLAY LOL WOW IF YOU DONT SEE THAT AS A DANGEORUS BOARD AGAINST A SET THEN YOU MIGHT WANT TO TRY GIN RUMMY OR BACKGAMMON THATS A REALLY REALLY DANGEROUS BOARD MAN

[adanthar]

[ QUOTE ]
Correct. I called for set value.
Why was this wrong? Because there were not enough people in the hand?

[/ QUOTE ]
Because with the absent blinds the CO can and should be raising with almost any two. Make a big raise, to something like 200, and he folds 3/4 of the time or more. If he comes over the top, well, you've got a decision to make, but hey, you have tens.

[ QUOTE ]
I was still 'slowplaying' this - I didn't want to overbet it as I didn't think the guy was on a hand and I didn't want to scare him out of the pot. This is where I stuggle - if I bet big then people always tell me I shouldn't come out firing so much as I'm loosing value. But when I try and play smart, I play stupid sh*t like this.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ask yourself this: On this board, with my set, how much do I like my hand against CO's hand if the next card is a 9, Q, 7, or club?

The time to underbet the pot is when viable flop draws will only make second best hands on the river. This is not one of those times.

[Cleveland Guy]

1. Re-raise to about 120-150 pre flop. See if that raise was to buy position, or cause of a hand

2. Raise that flop. What makes you think he has a J? Since you didn't raise pre-flop gotta raise here to see if he has anything

3. Turn is okay, a nice raise, but you get flat called, what does that tell you