Beware flop undertow ...

[antidan444]

I got dragged out to sea on this hand ... please clue me in on the right way to play this. I need it.

Ultimate Bet 0.50/1 Hold'em (8 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is BB with K/images/graemlins/spade.gif, Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif. CO posts a blind of $0.50.
<font color="666666">3 folds</font>, CO (poster) checks, <font color="CC3333">Button raises</font>, <font color="666666">1 fold</font>, Hero calls, <font color="666666">1 fold</font>.

Flop: (5.50 SB) K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, J/images/graemlins/heart.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="CC3333">Button bets</font>, Hero calls.

(I think I should have check-raised here. It would have helped define her hand. If she three-bets, I can call and fold the turn without improvement. If she calls, maybe I get a free river card.)

Turn: (3.75 BB) 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="CC3333">Button bets</font>, Hero calls.

(By now I'd decided to call down. Not saying that's what I should have done, just that it's what I decided to do. By the way, polka-dot skirts look great on overweight, bald guys ...)

River: (5.75 BB) 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="CC3333">Button bets</font>, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 7.75 BB
<font color="green">Main Pot: 7.75 BB, between Hero, UTG and Button.</font>

[jrz1972]

Its just you versus the button, right?

I'm inclined to just fold the flop. The pot's small, and it's going to cost me 2.5 BB to see if my 2nd pair is any good. Not worth it.

[antidan444]

Yeah, folding was an option. I was reaching for it and then a huge wave left me hacking up my lungs ...

[srt19170]

[ QUOTE ]

I'm inclined to just fold the flop. The pot's small, and it's going to cost me 2.5 BB to see if my 2nd pair is any good.

[/ QUOTE ]

You have at most 9 outs (and probably not that many) requiring 4:1 pot odds. You can barely justify calling the flop bet, but the turn is an easy fold.

-- Scott

[Piiop]

[ QUOTE ]
You have at most 9 outs (and probably not that many) requiring 4:1 pot odds. You can barely justify calling the flop bet, but the turn is an easy fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's assuming you're already beaten.

The button raised when it was folded to him on an 8-handed table. You will have the best hand here plenty of times. Any read on the button?

[antidan444]

No real read. Early in my session. Opponent had been in several hands up to that point, but hadn't shown any hnads down that led to me making any notes at that point.

[jrz1972]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You have at most 9 outs (and probably not that many) requiring 4:1 pot odds. You can barely justify calling the flop bet, but the turn is an easy fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's assuming you're already beaten.

The button raised when it was folded to him on an 8-handed table. You will have the best hand here plenty of times. Any read on the button?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I know. The question is am I better than button (and stay better than button) ~1/2 the time?

I hate these situations in which somebody might be stealing and I catch a piece of a scary board. Maybe I'm giving up too easily here. I'm definitely not doing anything more than just calling down though.

[sexypanda]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You have at most 9 outs (and probably not that many) requiring 4:1 pot odds. You can barely justify calling the flop bet, but the turn is an easy fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's assuming you're already beaten.

The button raised when it was folded to him on an 8-handed table. You will have the best hand here plenty of times. Any read on the button?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yea, I agree. This could easily be a blind steal. I'd raise the flop to see where I am. If he continues with agression, I then slow down.

Edit: I'd actually bet out on the flop rather than check-raise. You might get him to fold right there. If he's on a steal or has a low pp, thats a really scary board for him too.

[Piiop]

[ QUOTE ]
The question is am I better than button (and stay better than button) ~1/2 the time?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes.

[DeuceKicker]

You might be able to check-raise the flop, but I find that they'll often call you down just because they're curious (and because the pot is now that much larger).

I'd bet the flop, bet the turn, and check/call the river if no K or T hits.

[srt19170]

[ QUOTE ]

Yea, I agree. This could easily be a blind steal.


[/ QUOTE ]

With CO already posted? How often does that work?

I don't know. I like SSHE's (?) advice: look for a reason to fold. Button's play is consistent with high pockets, AK, KQ, KJ, AJ, AQ, -- a plethora of hands that beat you. I don't know how often 2nd pair wins on a board with an A, but I'd be surprised if it was 50% of the time.

-- Scott

[Piiop]

Your range of range hands should expand drastically when it's folded to you on the button. When there's a poster, you can actually raise with even more hands because you're putting in the same amount to win more.

[ QUOTE ]
I don't know. I like SSHE's (?) advice: look for a reason to fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure where SSHE says that, but I'm sure it doesn't apply to this situation.

[ QUOTE ]
Button's play is consistent with high pockets, AK, KQ, KJ, AJ, AQ, -- a plethora of hands that beat you. I don't know how often 2nd pair wins on a board with an A, but I'd be surprised if it was 50% of the time.

[/ QUOTE ]

He could have those hands....but he could also have many more. The only thing the villain has done is bet when the hero checked to him, that really doesn't signify much.