JJ on the button - turn decision

[Fiddler]

Third hand at the table so no reads.

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (10 handed)

Preflop: Hero is Button with J/images/graemlins/heart.gif, J/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 calls, MP3 folds, CO calls, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises</font>, SB folds, BB folds, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP2 calls, CO calls.

Flop: (11.50 SB) 5/images/graemlins/club.gif, 4/images/graemlins/club.gif, 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue">(5 players)</font>
UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, MP2 checks, CO checks, <font color="CC3333">Hero bets</font>, UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, MP2 calls, CO calls.

Turn: (7.75 BB) 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(4 players)</font>
UTG+1 checks, MP2 checks, <font color="CC3333">CO bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises</font>, UTG+1 folds, MP2 calls, CO calls.

Do I just call down here? Fold to a 3-bet?

River: (13.75 BB) 7/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
MP2 checks, <font color="CC3333">CO bets</font>, Hero calls, MP2 folds.

Final Pot: 15.75 BB

[btspider]

i like the turn raise. an odd behavior I noticed at .50/1.00 is when the board pairs (not the top card), someone who just called your flop raise with top pair will bet the turn since he just "improved" to two pair. you can usually fold if 3-bet. the raise helps fold overcards to your vulnerable J's.

Another stop-n-go.. he most certainly has the 7.

[Fiddler]

[ QUOTE ]
i like the turn raise. an odd behavior I noticed at .50/1.00 is when the board pairs (not the top card), someone who just called your flop raise with top pair will bet the turn since he just "improved" to two pair. you can usually fold if 3-bet. the raise helps fold overcards to your vulnerable J's.


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I have also noticed that a lot of players overplay their two-pairs when one of the pairs is on the board.

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Another stop-n-go.. he most certainly has the 7.

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Do you fold the river with no reads?

[btspider]

no don't fold with this pot size. it sucks to call not closing the action though. i want to know why he pulled the stop-n-go. sometimes he'll have a pocket pair over the 7 and just be scared of overcards each time you raise. he could have an Ace or some other ridiculous hand.

[Fiddler]

[ QUOTE ]
no don't fold with this pot size. it sucks to call not closing the action though. i want to know why he pulled the stop-n-go. sometimes he'll have a pocket pair over the 7 and just be scared of overcards each time you raise. he could have an Ace or some other ridiculous hand.

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True. On the other hand the situation is pretty much the same as a turn 3-bet. My situation has not improved and I am facing a bet... So at some point against certain players I should have enough information to fold... Any idea when? /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[btspider]

when you fold to a 3-bet on the turn, you save 2 bets (he'll bet the river again). a 3-bet is also a stronger move.

here you are looking to save one bet since you can easily fold if MP2 check-raises.

to fold to this river bet in a 14 BB pot (drop some for the rake), you have to be 93% confident that you are beaten. that is extremely difficult to do. he might have 88-TT here and just not know how to play it. sometimes someone will put you on AK when you raise PF and just stick with that read.

don't be disappointed when you call and lose since it will happen a lot. but on occasion you'll call and be quite surprised by what he turns over.

[Fiddler]

[ QUOTE ]
when you fold to a 3-bet on the turn, you save 2 bets (he'll bet the river again). a 3-bet is also a stronger move.


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But calling down a 3-bet wasn't really an option in this situation. From how I likely would have acted he extracted the maximum (he had T5 for trip fives). Against a player that can fold to a turn 3-bet a stop-n-go seems like an excellent play... and it seems like it is often made by players that are too afraid to 3-bet... or too smart. And at my limit it is probably the first option. Ah, well hopefully it evens out in the end. It was just a depressing third hand. /images/graemlins/smile.gif