Venting my anger to Party players: NO Teaching the fishies!

[BlueBear]

I got to vent.

I just saw someone talking on the NL50 tables about Pokertracker preflop/looseness statistics, please that's a big NO NO, please leave the fishies alone and let them happy no matter how <font color="red">frustrated </font> you are. It's for the best as loose players are the ones who fund our extra income.

"You're one damn loose cannon, my pokertracker stats tell me!" Jeez....

[phil_ivey_fan]

agreed. I hate when I see "teaching".

Ok, so you take a bad beat. Don't berrate (sp?) the player on how he didn't have odds or shouldn't have called preflop w/ that hand etc. etc. etc.

NO TEACHING...lets keep the games weak.

[Blarg]

I always find it funny when the VPIP 50 guy gets all over the case of the VPIP 60 guy and tells him he can't play.

Except when he chases that guy away, as I see happen time after time after time.

[BigNutSack]

I've noticed that a lot of players who like to talk about their hands s*ck

[Rudbaeck]

[ QUOTE ]
I always find it funny when the VPIP 50 guy gets all over the case of the VPIP 60 guy and tells him he can't play.


[/ QUOTE ]

Heck, it's rare that the guy doing the yelling has the lowest VPIP... Often enough you see someone with 50% VPIP yelling at someone with 45% VPIP.

[brandon]

I tell the fishes how good they play. My favorite line is "Any two cards can win. Thats how I play".

I dont think it has that big of an effect one way or another on the internet. People on the net tend to have thick skins. That kind of talk will defintely ruin a live game.

[amoeba]

I used to think that teaching is negative, but now I do a lot of teaching because I feel that often the fishes are just dying to prove you wrong after you teach them.

I noticably see play get looser after one of my "lectures".

[slickpoppa]

I agree, I really hate it when people do this. I find the best way to deal with people like this is to talk trash to them and tell them that they don't know what they are talking about. This has two effects:
1) Instead of instructing the fish, they direct their anger at you.
2) In an effort to prove how smart they are, they will often overplay hands.

[BigNutSack]

This maniac at my 100NL table bet 15 pre-flop last night. Since this guy had been betting garbage all night, I went All In with K Q and he called. It turned out that he had 86s and I busted him!

So I comment "8 6, nice call"

He says "I had a feeling"

Naurally, this guy is on my "Buddy" list

[bwana devil]

[ QUOTE ]
So I comment "8 6, nice call"

[/ QUOTE ]

That's the type of comment that is going to lose you money over time.

I'd recommend saying absolutely nothing. If the other person comments, I may have some sort of "aw shucks, I caught you" type response where the other person sees it as some - sort of a friendly cat-n-mouse game w/out any good strategy behind it.

[BigNutSack]

What I meant by "8 6, nice call" was - Wow! You've really got some set of nuts! Keep up the good work!

[bwana devil]

[ QUOTE ]
Wow! You've really got some set of nuts! Keep up the good work!

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm guessing it did not convey that message to the player. It certainly did not to me. It probably sounded something like this:

"Wow! You've really got to be an idiot to call w/ 86! Keep up the good work!"

[liquidboss]

I'm going to have to agree with this, I was playing Party 2-4 last night and a guy was talking about his hole cards and asking people at the table what to do. The best part was he seemed to have a friend at the table giving him advice. They were calling eachother by name and I remember him asking, "is it ok that I didn't raise with AK there?" His benefactor's response, "Sure, you don't need to raise AK if you don't want to."

I guess as long as people keep giving advice like that I don't mind... /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[BlueBear]

Even smart sarcastics comments like "86- nice call!" has potentially devastating effect in tightening up the players. Don't provide a clue to them that such calls are fundamentally wrong because the some fishies believe it's good play to play occasionally play along with their "gut feeling", and let them.

There are four terms that MUST be banned in an internet poker table, and these terms have the effect of instantly making a fish aware that there is more to the game than luck. They are:

Pokertracker, TwoplusTwo, Malmuth and Sklansky

[The Q]

I was at a table last night where two guys were going on and on about PokerTracker. I wanted to say something to them but couldn't figure out how to say it without making the whole thing worse. Any suggestions?

[jakethebake]

I just looked on PokerTracker and realized I never raise AK.

[liquidboss]

[ QUOTE ]
I just looked on PokerTracker and realized I never raise AK.

[/ QUOTE ]

Then don't read this thread anymore and keep doing what you are doing.

[jakethebake]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I just looked on PokerTracker and realized I never raise AK.

[/ QUOTE ]

Then don't read this thread anymore and keep doing what you are doing.

[/ QUOTE ]
LOL

[dink]

Is it that - ev to not always raise with AK, I only raise about 95% of the time, isn't AK a hand better played against fewer players? With everyone in on the flop wouldn't it be better to just call and wait to see what the flops brings.

in hold em excellence Lou says not to always raise AK, but maybe that is in B&amp;M.

Am I way off the mark here?

dink

[Phill S]

[ QUOTE ]
Even smart sarcastics comments like "86- nice call!" has potentially devastating effect in tightening up the players. Don't provide a clue to them that such calls are fundamentally wrong because the some fishies believe it's good play to play occasionally play along with their "gut feeling", and let them.

There are four terms that MUST be banned in an internet poker table, and these terms have the effect of instantly making a fish aware that there is more to the game than luck. They are:

Pokertracker, TwoplusTwo, Malmuth and Sklansky

[/ QUOTE ]

do you guys really think its that much of a problem?

let me put it this way, do you think they are fish because theyve never heard of books like the theory of poker, or are they fish because they dont care and dont want to put the effort in to learn the game.

seriously, think about it.

of course it can have an effect over the game, i remember reading a similar thread where the guy said his stats show that the table generally tightens up after someone starts giving lessons, but in the world of instantly available tables, if the table goes sour move. if you have to do so mention that giving free lessons costs everyone long term, but once you do so your forced to leave yourself (as much as you are if you say dont tap the glass and such).

the fish will always be fish, the sharks will continue to be sharks, and those in between make the choice which way to go. is it so bad that they know about this site?

Phill

[liquidboss]

[ QUOTE ]
Is it that - ev to not always raise with AK, I only raise about 95% of the time, isn't AK a hand better played against fewer players? With everyone in on the flop wouldn't it be better to just call and wait to see what the flops brings.

in hold em excellence Lou says not to always raise AK, but maybe that is in B&amp;M.

Am I way off the mark here?

dink

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess I started a hijacking of this thread but I would say that you don't need to always raise with AK. Never raising with AK though is a mistake in my opinion.

[mrjim]

I agree, leave the poor fish alone. I have never berated a fish. My tactic is anytime I want to scream, I just type "nh." I find this to be the most annoying thing put in a chat box, so I figure that's punishment enough.

[Rudbaeck]

[ QUOTE ]
Is it that - ev to not always raise with AK, I only raise about 95% of the time, isn't AK a hand better played against fewer players? With everyone in on the flop wouldn't it be better to just call and wait to see what the flops brings.

in hold em excellence Lou says not to always raise AK, but maybe that is in B&amp;M.

[/ QUOTE ]

If three people see the flop with you, you're going to win the pot way more often than 1 in 4. If seven people see the flop with you you are still going to win way more than 1 in 8.

Your equity with AK is still high no matter how many are in.

Not raising AK is probably only a deception move, and all said I am more in favor of fast deception moves (raise with T9s) than slow deception moves. (not raising with AK)

Though online I don't think either move has much merit, with the exception of high buyin single table tourneys. In a b&amp;m where some of your opponents have played hundreds of hours against you it's time to use the tricky moves. The move itself is still -EV, but your hoping the advertising pays off later.

[The once and future king]

Have you ever seen a fish actualy listen to a lesson.

[goldcowboy]

W.C. Fields said it well some seventy years ago: "Never give a sucker an even break, or smarten up a chump"

In fact when I have seen someone coaching at an online table I have occasionally used that same quote in hopes they will quit it. My comment may tighten up some fish short-term, but it is definitely positive EV long-term to convince the table coaches to cut it out.

One problem is, many of you twenty-somethings don't even have a clue who W.C. Fields was...

P.S. But, no, I wasn't around 70 years ago either!

[Rudbaeck]

[ QUOTE ]
Have you ever seen a fish actualy listen to a lesson.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes. But most often the response is to play better (or atleast more aggressively) against the lecturer.

[DrewOnTilt]

Add the offending party to your buddy list. Open the buddy list, and highlight the person. Click "Invite" (this is used to invite a user to a particular table). You can type a personal message as well. Here, if you type something like "Hey man - don't educate the fish!" then only the offending party will see that message in the chat box.

[DrewOnTilt]

[ QUOTE ]
do you guys really think its that much of a problem?

let me put it this way, do you think they are fish because theyve never heard of books like the theory of poker, or are they fish because they dont care and dont want to put the effort in to learn the game.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, it is that much of a problem, but for reasons other than what you mention. If someone acts like a jackass to me then I walk away from that person. The same applies to poker tables. The fish may get upset and decide to pack it in for the night, rather than stay to continue lining my pockets.

[teddyFBI]

my therapeutic response to bad beats is a big fat "SERENITY NOW!" in the chatbox.

That usually elicits a round of lol's, and then we get on w/ the game.

[emonrad87]

[ QUOTE ]
I agree, leave the poor fish alone. I have never berated a fish. My tactic is anytime I want to scream, I just type "nh." I find this to be the most annoying thing put in a chat box, so I figure that's punishment enough.

[/ QUOTE ]

I always just go ahead and scream out loud - no one can hear me anyway! /images/graemlins/smile.gif Nothing goes in the text box.