quad surprise

I played the following stud hand in a 2-4 game online with a .25 ante and $1 bring-in. I welcome any comments.


2c brings it in.

9c folds

8s folds

Th folds

5d folds

8c Qc Ks (me) tries to steal the antes with a raise. The Ad to my left in the last seat is a tight player. If he has something, I hope to find out soon enough to get out. No problem...

Ad folds

the bring-in calls.


4th street:


BI: ? ? 2s 2c

me: 8c Qc Ks Jd


The bring in checks. Fearing a check-raise and not actually having anything, I check behind him.


5th street:


BI: ? ? 2s 2c 7h

me: 8c Qc Ks Jd 9s


The bring in checks. Now, I have an inside straigth draw, but still, basically nothing. I check behind him.


6th street:


BI: ? ? 2s 2c 7h Ah

me: 8c Qc Ks Jd 9s Td


Well, what do you know? I hit my inside straight draw. But what happens next?


The bring-in bets! He must know by now that I never had anything, and maybe he is just trying to snag the $5.75 in the pot with his pair of deuces and a $4 bet. Or, maybe he has made Aces up. Well, I've got a big straight now. I raise. He re-raises! OK, probably not just a pair of deuces. Maybe Aces up, maybe an ill-conceived slow play on trip deuces. I've got both of those covered. Put me in for the cap.


I catch the Kd on the river, but it doesn't matter much what I get there. The bring-in bets, and I am concerned that he may have filled up. I just call.


He shows me all four 2s!


In retrospect, I am wondering if he had quads from 4th street on. His play would have made the most sense that way. Anyone think I should have expected as much from the raising war on 6th? Anyone think I was too cocky with my raises? No comments are necessary about whether I should have avoided the situation all together by folding on 3rd street. ;-)

Trying to steal on third was probably fine. With an Ace behind me, I would probably have passed, but if the guy with the Ace is tight and/or passive, you can take a shot. You were probably right to check behind on fourth and fifth. Your steal attempt failed, and if the guy didn't fold on third, he probably wasn't going to fold later when he improved. Of course you raise with your straight on sixth, but once he comes over the top, I think you have to credit him with having a big hand. You're showing four to a straight, and he's telling you that you're beaten, so don't throw in the re-raise on sixth. I'd probably call it down, but against some opponents I'd throw it in. It sure looks like he was sandbagging with quads. Bastard.

Tim,


Your play--including the steal attempt--is fine other than your last raise on 6th street. With that board, you are representing a straight when you raise. When he 3-bets with an open pair (that included his doorcard), you have to believe that at worst he has trips but more likely has a full house (no way you can put him on quads, not that it matters). I don't see how you can raise again in that spot. I would have called there and then called again on the river given the size of the pot.

Well, I think he got lucky you pulled the straight. He maybe should've bet into you on fifth. But I think overall you both played well and you just got screwed.


Giles

Now, now. Let's not go calling names. I would say, nice play, Tim's opponent. Thanks for your response.

I think I just call on Sixth Street. I'm not sure, though, since it's easy to say and easy to pat my self on the back given 20/20 hindsight.


However, I'd like to think that I would have smelled a rat. I would have to assume your opponent called your opening raise with something, but it's unlikely that it was a pocket pair, because he wouldn't have checked Fourth Street. If the deuce on fourth street had given him trips he would have been foolish to slow-play them, and doubly foolish to bet into your board on Sixth Street because he wouldn't get action, most of the time, unless he was beaten (small pot). I think his play with trips would have been to bet them (full bet), and see if you'd chase with Kings.


Anyway, I don't know if I would have sensed anything, but it seems like I would have thought, perhaps, that I was up against either a bluff or a monster. That's before his re-raise on Sixth Street, of course, because after that I would know -- almost for sure -- which one it was...but I'd probably call him down unless I knew this particular opponent would not three-bet into my board without the better hand.


Tom D

Perhaps he had just trips on 6th and was attempting the check-raise three times? If he had quads on 6th it would seem he would raise you again (isn't there no cap heads up?). Or that he would check-raise the river. If I am missing something please let me know.


As for your decisions, I think you played it the best way you could.

....if he had quads on the 1st 4 cards IMO. He has a monster hand and is just hoping you catch something that you'll bet. He didn't bet until 6th St, where your board showed strong enough that since it was fairly obvious you were on a steal (checking behind on 4th and 5th), you might stick around and call to catch the straight. That you caught your straight on 6th St and raised him was a bonus, since now he raises back. As others have mentioned, your last raise on 6th was very questionable. Since you raised him, he knows you have a straight, but he raises you back saying I can beat your straight. 7th st was played correctly.


I wouldn't beat myself up over it - you lost an extra bet you shouldn't have - all of us have made worse mistakes I'm sure. Another way to look at it is that you were on a steal and ended up with a straight - not too shabby normally against a pair of deuces.

.....my apologies

This sounds like the 2-4 on paradise, which I've played. From my experience, it's almost certain he had the quads on 4th. Look at it from his point of view: dealt rolled, he just brings it in for deception. Darn, only one player stays and he's possibly on a steal -- don't scare him off with a re-raise on third. Now on fourth you catch quads. No need to worry about free cards -- you will almost certainly win the pot. Your concern is in keeping your opponent in, and he sure looks weak. Hence the checks -- you are hoping he makes a hand. Unfortunately for you, that's what happened. I'd actually hesitate to even bet sixth with a str8 given how small the pot is -- but would probably do it since opponent will call with two pair. Once you're raised, it's likely you're either beat by a made full house or he has trips and is drawing to beat you. I would not reraise, but I have seen players get crazy with two pair, so I'd call the river.