Buckner is the man

[ThaSaltCracka]

I like this.....



Buckner to Red Sox fans: Don't forgive me
Posted: 45 minutes ago



Bill Buckner's name has been brought up a lot now that the Red Sox have finally won a World Series championship after an 86-year drought.

But after becoming the whipping boy of the Red Sox nation over a crucial error in Boston's last trip to the World Series in 1986, Buckner doesn't want anyone saying he's now "forgiven" for his mistake.

"I don't want to bring a downer on the whole situation because I'm very happy for the Boston Red Sox ... and they certainly deserved to win the World Series this year." Buckner said on Sporting News Radio's James Brown Show.

"I'm just a little disappointed with the whole thing. This whole thing about being forgiven and clearing my name, you know, I mean ... cleared from what? What did I do wrong? It's almost like being in prison for 30 years and then they come up with a DNA test to prove that you weren't guilty.

"I've gone through a lot of, what I feel, undeserved bad situations for myself and my family over a long period of time, and for someone to come up to me and say, 'Hey, you're forgiven.' I mean, it just kind of brings a really bad taste in my mouth."

There has been talk in some circles of trying to include Buckner in this year's victory celebration, but Buckner made it clear where he stood on that notion.

"Not a chance. Not a chance," Buckner said. "There are a lot of great people in New England and great fans, and obviously they're very passionate about their team. This is their championship; this is what they did, and I'm happy for them. But my team in '86 didn't win and this team did."

[texaspimp]

Buckner should be applauded for being a standup guy. Remember, the Sox were up 2 (I think). Buckners error allowed one run, not three. Certainly the ball should have been caught, but to lump the entire blame on him is absurd. It's like Cubs fans blaming Bartman for their loss. While it certainly did not help, what about Alex Gonzalez's error at short.

Check Buckner's stats sometime. He was a helluva player.

[Sponger15SB]

He sounds so damn guilty of something he didn't even really do.

Why even come out any say anything?

[ThaSaltCracka]

People came out first and told him that he was forgiven, his reply of [censored] Off, was perfect and justifiable IMO.

[daryn]

doesn't sound like he said F off. more like no thanks and congrats.

[namknils]

[ QUOTE ]
Buckner should be applauded for being a standup guy. Remember, the Sox were up 2 (I think). Buckners error allowed one run, not three. Certainly the ball should have been caught, but to lump the entire blame on him is absurd. It's like Cubs fans blaming Bartman for their loss. While it certainly did not help, what about Alex Gonzalez's error at short.

Check Buckner's stats sometime. He was a helluva player.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed, Buckner doesn't deserve it, the whole team lost that year. Neither does Bartman. For the record, I'm a Cubs fan who never blamed Bartman.

[namknils]

[ QUOTE ]
People came out first and told him that he was forgiven, his reply of [censored] Off, was perfect and justifiable IMO.

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly, he didn't bring all this into the spotlight for himself, others are "forgiving" him and even suggesting that he be included in the parade/celebration. I would be insulted, I think he was.

[ThaSaltCracka]

I think he said essentially F off to those fans that have treated him like [censored] for close to 20 years.

He seemed classy to the team though, I like what he said about them.

[M2d]

I believe that Lasorda has said that, of the whole crop of young talent that the dodgers had in the early 70's (Cey, Lopes, Russel, Garvey, Buckner, Valentine), Buckner and Valentine were had the sweetest swings. Valentine fell victim to injuries and Buckner had the poster boy to compete with.

[texaspimp]

Not to be a stat geek, but here are some stats to ponder:

Buckner is 53rd all-time on the hits list with 2715. That is more hits than Reggie Jackson in fewer at bats.

Lifetime batting average was .289 (2715 hits/9397 ab). That is higher than Joe Morgan, Luis Aparicio, Ozzie Smith and Yaz.
His 9397 ab's is 38th all time.

Buckner had 174 HR and 1208 RBI, which is more than Rod Carew in similar ab's. He played in 2517 games, 40th all time.

He ranks 833rd on the career error list. Because of his 16651 total chances, his fielding % was .991.

What does this all mean? He was a good to very good player and gets little to no respect because of one error out of his career 146.


http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/stats_historical/mlb_historical_player_stats.jsp?section1=1&statSet 1=1&statType=1&timeFrame=3&baseballScope=mlb&sitSp lit=&teamPosCode=all&HS=true&timeSubFrame=0&&sortB yStat=AB

[Dynasty]

It seems very few people remember that Buckner returned to the Red Sox at the end of his career. The Sox traded Buckner during the 1987 season in large part because fans were so upset over the loss in the 1986 World Series. He spent the next few years on both the Angels and Royals where his skills deteriorated. Then, in 1990, the Red Sox brought him back for his final season almost entirely to repair hurt feelings. On Opening Day at Fenway Park, Buckner received a huge standing ovation. He played the final 22 games of his career that year with the Red Sox before ultimately being released.

[ThaSaltCracka]

I like the guy, glad to hear people at Fenway cheered for him. Its just sad someone can get death threats for missing a ground ball.

[kyro]

I agree. I'm happy FOR him that he might be able to live a normal life. But you're right. We shouldn't have to forgive the guy. I like the way he handled it.

[vulturesrow]

I am a big fan of the Sox, but I have always hated how hard so many of the fans were on Buckner. He deserves to say whatever he wants about the situation.

[ThaSaltCracka]

whats most important Kyro is we both can agree on something. It gives me a warm fuzzy feeling.

Cursed be damned(it never was real) atleast Buckners supposed infamy can finally be laid to rest, and I for one am glad. Next year its the Cubs.

[andyfox]

I agree. Mariano Rivera's error probably the Yankees the 2001 World Series. In the bottom of the 9th of game seven.

Bill Buckner had a fine career, well over 2500 hits and won a batting title. If anyone is to blame for 1986, it's the Red Sox manager who should have removed Buckner for a defensive replacement.

[Senor Choppy]

[ QUOTE ]
If anyone is to blame for 1986, it's the Red Sox manager who should have removed Buckner for a defensive replacement.

[/ QUOTE ]

He had a career fielding % of .991. For '86 it was .989, second best among everyday players on the Red Sox that year. This is results oriented thinking :/

[Bulldog]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If anyone is to blame for 1986, it's the Red Sox manager who should have removed Buckner for a defensive replacement.

[/ QUOTE ]

He had a career fielding % of .991. For '86 it was .989, second best among everyday players on the Red Sox that year. This is results oriented thinking :/

[/ QUOTE ]

The baseball statheads will tell you that fielding percentage is of almost no value whatsoever when judging fielding performance.

Even the non-statheads will tell you that it is of no value at all to compare fielding percentages of players from different positions.

Do you see why?

[Bulldog]

[ QUOTE ]
What does this all mean? He was a good to very good player and gets little to no respect because of one error out of his career 146.


http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/stats_historical/mlb_historical_player_stats.jsp?section1=1&statSet 1=1&statType=1&timeFrame=3&baseballScope=mlb&sitSp lit=&teamPosCode=all&HS=true&timeSubFrame=0&&sortB yStat=AB

[/ QUOTE ]

For a stat geek with all those numbers, I'd think you'd know that the error we remember isn't one of the 146. Postseason stats aren't counted as part of a player's regular statistics.

[andyfox]

Buckner, hobbled with a foot injury, had no business being in the game, his presence there a result of John McNamara's decision to not put in Dave Stapleton as a defensive replacement as he had been doing all postseason.

Let's not forget, too, that it was Bob Stanley who threw the wild pitch that tied the game, and Calvin Schiraldi who allowed the Mets to tie it before the game went to extra innings.

[Senor Choppy]

I'm never a fan of defensive replacements if it means losing a bat in the lineup and relying on someone that's been sitting on the bench for the past 3 hours to play flawless baseball.

Having said that, I didn't realize Buckner had a foot injury at the time, and I shouldn't have doubted you in the first place on the subject /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Bulldog]

[ QUOTE ]
Buckner, hobbled with a foot injury, had no business being in the game, his presence there a result of John McNamara's decision to not put in Dave Stapleton as a defensive replacement as he had been doing all postseason.



[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, it was the foot that caused the error. He couldn't even get to the ball. And all this time I thought that highlight of the ball going between his legs was the one we were talking about! /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[texaspimp]

My apologies, Bulldog. I could not find the playoff error stats on mlb.com any earlier than 99.

[Bulldog]

[ QUOTE ]
My apologies, Bulldog. I could not find the playoff error stats on mlb.com any earlier than 99.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was just in a smart-a$$ mood. Forget mlb.com for baseball stats; try Baseball Reference (http://www.baseball-reference.com) .

[andyfox]

Two run lead with three outs to go you put in your best defensive alignment. John McNamara was always regarded by his players as the incompetent putz that he was.